hey glenn, bo...
i think the MOQ is compatible with idealism but not *subjective* idealism. subjective idealism says that the subject's mind creates the world (solipsistic); an MOQish idealism says Mind (experience/quality) creates the world, including the subject. (Big M) Mind = quality in this sense whereas (little m) mind = intellect/ (self-)consciousness.
gav
i s
>From: gmbbradford@netscape.net (Glenn Bradford)
>Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>Subject: MD denying MOQ's idealism?
>Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 00:35:55 -0500
>
>Bo,
>
>BO:
> >"Still idealism..." Pirsig speaks at length about the "Copernican revolution" his
> >Quality Idea will bring about, he tells about his epiphany where he sees
> >Quality as before anything else and says that it is the CREATOR of mind and
> >matter ..... of MIND, mind you!!....then you come dragging the mind/matter
> >arch-offspring "idealism" back into the discussion!
>
>Didn't you once slip and say that "the MOQ could be called the Metaphysics
>of Subjectivity"? Haven't you in a past post "staggered to the podium" to
>deny the MOQ's idealism for the n'th time only to shortly thereafter admit
>it? Haven't you said that you could understand how people could view the MOQ
>premise as "outrageous" and (see just below) as "madness"?
>
>BO:
> >It's perfectly OK, to say (to
> >oneself): "H... this is madness, I won't touch it!", but to treat the MOQ an
> >interesting theory worth exploring ... without acceptance of the the initial
> >postulate is beyond me. Please, no "ire" directed your way Glenn, it's just that
> >each time someone return after a break and presents a promising-sounding
> >message my hopes rise.
>
>You'll have to show me where you think I said or even implied that the MOQ was
>an interesting theory worth exploring. Either you mis-read or read-into what I
>wrote or I didn't make myself clear. Please try not to confuse statements I
>make that clarify what I think Pirsig believes with what I believe. When in
>doubt about this, a good rule of thumb is to assume I don't agree with him.
>Glenn
>
>
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