On 7 Apr 2002 at 15:58, David Buchanan wrote:
> Wim wrote to Rog 4/4 23:00 +0200
> > 'A 5th level of values, whenever it occurs, will be recognizable by
> > the "turbo-charging" of intellectual progress.
> If a fifth level ever emerges it will be because the intellectual
> level is all played out, spent, exhausted and at the end of its
> ability to improve the world. That's a long way off. The 4th level is
> very young, has yet to fully take charge and is apparently still under
> siege by 3rd-level reactionary forces. If I had to guess how long it
> would take the intellectual level to reach its maximum potential, how
> long it would take for the 4th level to become so restrictive as to
> create a need for a 5th level, I'd guess it'll happen in the year
> 9999, in June, on a Tuesday, at 08:44 GMT.
Hi David.
These are fine points, but there seems to be a "redshift". The time span
between the Big Bang (if that is what happened) and the first life forms
is stupendous, but from that to the first social patterns is relatively short.
And the intervall to Intellect's birth/emergence is just the blink of an
eye, so the next Q-movement may not be so far off.
All right, this sounds ridiculous - levels forming faster and faster and
history coming to an end (like a coin wobbling to a standstill) so in that
sense your estimate may be correct, but I do think that the "weak
dynamic forces" start trying to escape the stasis of whatever level from
the very start, so there may have been many attempts to scale
intellect's wall already ...... but only with Pirsig's ideas has a foothold
has been established.
You then make this interesting observation:
> > The 4th level is
> > very young, has yet to fully take charge and is apparently still under
> > siege by 3rd-level reactionary forces.
But will a lower ever stop besieging the upper? Have inorganic (death)
stopped besieging life and have biological value stopped opposing
social valuel? Not in my opinion, so that's no indication of Intellect's
precarious position. I would say that its position is pretty secure, almost
oppressingly so, and my once instant embrace of the Quality idea was
due to it showing Intellect's limitation in the sense of pointing to a SOM
thereby suggesting that it isn't reality "as it is", but a mere stage.
Whoops! my SOL again. BTW. Did you define the intellectual level
when we discussed this a while ago? It's value except the SO(M)
Bo
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