In a message dated 4/14/02 3:19:24 PM GMT Daylight Time, pholden@sc.rr.com
writes:
<< Subj: Re: MD ignorance and the rule of emotion
Date: 4/14/02 3:19:24 PM GMT Daylight Time
From: pholden@sc.rr.com (Platt Holden)
Sender: owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk
Reply-to: moq_discuss@moq.org
To: moq_discuss@moq.org
Hi Squonk:
S:
> Hi Platt,
> A non-answer you say?
> Astonishing!
> Is there no beginning to your imagination?
I ask for facts to back up your assertions, not an exercise of
imagination. I'm no mind reader.
It is fortunate for you that you are not a mind reader.
S:
> Astonishing still!
> I have to ask myself if you are being serious?
> If you have not made yourself aware of the Ozone depletion problem and skin
> cancer problems then, for your own health at least, please educate
> yourself? It could save your life my friend. Tip: Make sure you always
> protect yourself from the Sun and use an appropriate sun factor, especially
> at high latitudes close to the poles.
From NASA Facts on Line: "Scientists are finding the ozone levels
change periodically as part of regular natural cycles, such as the
changing season, sun cycles and winds. Moreover, volcanic eruptions
may inject materials into the stratosphere that can destroy ozone."
...errrrrrr as well as CFC's i gather then?
P:
> Please define "biodiversity." Why important? Are we also part of it?
S:
> Read, 'Ishmael' by Quinn.
> Good for an interpretation of the fall which you may find illuminating? The
> thrust is this: Nature has empirically observable laws. One is the
> importance of maintaining biodiversity.
I ask for facts. You tell me to read a book. If you want to engage in a
battle of books, read "The Skeptical Environmentalist" by Lomborg.
You want facts?
Will an appeal to empiricism not do you then?
And i do not wish for a moment to battle with books; you did me the courtesy
of recommending a couple of books and i wish to return the complement.
> P:
> > What makes you think the MOQ would support such a sacrifice?
(freedom for long term planetary health).
S:
> Without a supporting biosphere, (biological patterns of value) social
> patterns of value are fundamentally threatened; and further, intellectual
> patterns. In other words the foundations of thousands of years of human
> evolution is being eroded at its evolutionary base. Therefore negative
> effects of social patterns, (excessive waste through free consumerism) must
> be challenged?
You may buy into the scare tactics of the environmentalist movement. I
don't.
My dear Platt, one may look for oneself and be scared quite enough without
listening to anyone else!
S:
> MOQ socialism is the support of society in order to free up intellectual
> values? One of the problems of capitalist social structures is that
> biological patterns are pandered to. An MOQ socialism would be a more
> intellectually oriented society and biology would be less male dominated
> and more open to co-operation. That's my dream.
MOQ socialism? I find no such idea in Pirsig's books. Instead,
socialism is downgraded as being static. Also, SOM intellect can't
direct society. According to Pirsig, it has screwed everything up.
P:
> Please expand on "value traps." What are they and do you have any?
S:
> Value traps negatively filter empirical awareness.
> One may not be aware of certain values because your culture does not
> emphasis them or suppresses them? I have loads. A good way of disclosing
> them is to be open to experience.
Please give specific examples. Is worry about the environment a value
trap?
The male view that women are inferior.
Now go on, argue they don't?
S:
> I was not aware that i had to respond to you by writing in an academically
> closed style? I like to extend and stretch language in creative ways that
> move beyond and free up static definitions. <Hangs head and mutters, 'For
> pity's sake.'>
If you make up meanings for words, don't expect others to understand
you.
That's why i recommended Dark Nature, in order to give you at least one
example of the term pathological being used with reference to other than
biological entities.
I know of more if you require them, (which it would appear you do)?
S:
> I am not a postmodernist.
> Although, i should imagine an ironic reading of that statement may prove
> inconclusive? ;) But seriously, You have asked a number of questions of me,
> which i have been pleased to answer to some degree of sincerity, but where
> is your debate? You do not grasp the issue of mutilated Jewish male
> genitalia? You appear quite happy to let it slide through your fingers?
What's the issue? I have no problem with circumcision. As for debate, it
would help a lot if you would be more specific. For example, would you
equalize personal income under your dream of state control? So far
about all I know is that you want to do something to benefit all
humanity. I want to benefit all humanity, too. Now what?
Platt
>>
So lopping off 1/3 of penile sensitive tissue for no good reason other than
to brand the chosen tribe is not barbaric, futile, and fundamentally horrid?
This practice circumscribes a supernaturally privileged gene pool reinforced
by social patterns of value. This may place the supernatural, (a social
pattern)? over Intellectual patterns in rather the same manner as Catholic
Church challenged the Heliocentric paradigm.
You certainly know how to be a gumption sink Platt.
All the best,
Squonk.
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