--On Thursday, April 18, 2002 10:29 PM -0500 3dwavedave <dlt44@ipa.net>
wrote:rr
Elliot
Sorry to jump in the conversation without knowing what's going on:
Wim
>> I don't think, 3WDave, 'that man and only man can be or will be ever
>> capable of accessing the higher social or intellectural levels'. I do
>> think that another species can only successfully develop culture in
>> isolation from humanity. Otherwise it will be thwarted by humanity once
>> it becomes a threat to homo sapiens in biological competition. So we
>> only really have to fear
> the aliens...
Elliot
I think it would be poison for a school of thought to accept the
metaphysics of another and argue only within its limits. I'm not accusing
you of doing that, so don't worry, but I think Pirsig is very biased in his
system of levels of quality. Putting mankind at the top is very much like
putting him in the center of the universe. Why is it necessary for animals
to achieve what we have achieved? Is it unthinkable that their cultures
have developed something of equal significance to our level of
"intellectual". I agree that there are levels of static patterns, but
having a limited (arbitrary) number and placing man at the cutting edge of
"progress", I can't see. I think he makes the same mistake to a smaller
extent as Aristotle of reifying the Good (God), and saying that man is
closest to it. in short, don't impose humanity on fish or our other
friends, they are what they are.
3WD
"Its just within a system which has evolved for eons and in which Pirsig
claims everything is still evolving and progressing to higher and higher
values to place a 'glass ceiling' between humans and everything else it
not only logically inconsistant, it's arrogant, "
Elliot
If by glass ceiling you mean man separating man as more important than the
rest of the world, i agree. But if you mean man really is of a higher
value than animals, and animals can break through to an equal level. Then I
disagree. It is not that they have the ability to reach has high as us
given time; it's that they are as high as us now only qualitatively
different. Maybe that's what you meant, sorry if I made too many
assumptions.
Elliot
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