Hey Pirsigians;
It looks like I've been drawn into the latest soap opera - As the Whirrled
Turns, The Daves of Our Lives.
glenn wrote...
David Buchanann was recently re-admitted to the website after being asked to
leave for offenses similar to the ones committed by Struan, no? Maybe the
difference is that DMB cheers the MOQ like a pom-pom girl, eh?
DMB
Pom-pom girl? Similar offences?! I'm not sure which is more insulting, to be
compared to a pom-pom girl or compared to Struan. Actually, no. I never
accused Diana of any kind of sexual perversity. I didn't even insult her. It
was just a matter of disagreement, but she was offended and convinced that I
was picking on her for being a woman. I replied to a message she posted
April 1st, which was so wrong on so many levels that I believed it was a
April Fool's Day prank. My reply was sacrastic and silly, pretending to go
along with her for absurd reasons. It was largely just a misunderstanding.
It true that I'm usually critical of something or someone and folks are
often offended by my disagreements, but that's just not the same as insults
or name calling. She's not here to defend herself, but as I said to Diana at
the time in a private exchange, I thought her far too sensitive and her
reaction was way out of proportion. She was pretty easily upset, as Roger
confesses...
Rog wrote...
PPS -- In regards to Diana, I am not sure if I know of many people that
contributed regularly that didn't eventually get on her bad side (or vice
versa). She reminded me of a mother that was never really happy with her
kids.
DMB
And marco had a view from the inside of that episode. Here I'm Mr.X....
Marco wrote...
A member (let's call him Mr. X) was "killed" by Diana from the MF mailing
list.
Well, after a period of conflict between them, one day Diana removes Mr.
X. One of the many charges was that he had insulted me (!). Actually I did
not know that, as his message had been bounced by Diana. So I asked for
clarification, as I was involved. After reading the original message, as in
my opinion it was not insulting me (even if it was ..emh, a little silly) I
told Diana that for me no problem to keep Mr. X alive. At most, I suggested
temporary unsubscription: my arguments were that a permanent unsubscription
was like death penalty, the "nice guy" thing and all that.... exactly all
what I read today in defense of Struan.
Anyway Diana had other reasons to unsubscribe him, and she went on. Mr. X
was removed from MF. Horse did not unsubscribe him from MD (Mr. X anyway
resigned for protest, I'm glad he is back now. )
DMB says...
Marco saw no insult where Diana did. And Horse saw no reason to unsubscribe
me, even though he saw me as an arrogant jerk. (Apparently he's more
forgiving of such flaws these days.) In fact, at the time I very much wanted
EVERYONE to see the offending post. For my part, I was convinced that any
impartial reader would conclude that my "execution" was completely
unjustified. It was very frustrating to be barred from presenting the post
as evidence of the injustice of even bouncing the post, let alone banning it
completely and kicking me out. It was silly and sarcastic, but still
relevant and on topic. Still wish you all could see it to judge for
yourselves. I'd like to see it myself. It's been two years since I even
thought about it and only remember that it had something to do with cowboys
and Indians. Anyway, that supposed list of other charges and other reasons
is a fiction. T'was just a single offensive post.
Glenn answered Marco with....
As for Mr. X, you give the impression that Diana unjustly gave him the ax,
when in fact you say yourself that "it was just one of the many charges"
and "Diana had other reasons to unsubscribe him". Unless you are privy to
those reasons, you have no way of fully evaluating whether Mr. X's
expulsion was justified. After saying that Mr. X was expelled from the
MF, you then imply that it is OK for Mr. X to be back on the MD because
he was never expelled from the MD. This reasoning is based on a
technicality, not ethics. That Mr. X can currently post as an actual member
and doesn't have to piggy-back on someone else's account to get his ideas
across, and that Mr. X also happens to be an avid supporter of the MOQ,
are two highly correlated facts, in my opinion.
DMB...
Glenn, it seems to me that you have even less of an opportunity to evaluate
"whether Mr X's expulsion was justified" than does Marco. And what's up with
the hostility? Did I used to go out with your sister or something? You paint
me as a pom-pom girl who got off on a technicality or as a star-struck
Pirsig fan who is allowed to remain subscribed only because it stokes
Horse's ego. That's nonsense. I find intelligent criticism of the MOQ to be
very exciting. John Beasley's dissent, for example, is very interesting.
Dissent is one thing, but uncomprehending objections are quite another.
That's just descent, not dissent.
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