Doesn't escape the fact that some ideas acting at the intellectual level
are plain simply bloody stupid because of the negative feedback on the
social levels. And I mean "bloody" in bodily fluid sense.
sriram25@comcast.net wrote:
>The statement that it is more moral for an idea to kill a society than for a
>society to kill an idea refers to the fact that intellectual patterns of
>value are morally superior to social patterns of value according to the moq.
>For example, it was immoral for the Catholic clergy and the Inquisition to
>force Galileo to recant his intellectual ideas regarding the solar system
>and earth's place in it. That was a lower form of social value devouring a
>higher form of intellectual value and thus immoral. Subsequently, after
>Galileo's intellectual ideas were adopted by Copernicus and others, much of
>the social patterns of the medieval clergy and especially the Inquisition
>were destroyed, and this was a moral development. Similarly, the heresy
>trials that Hobbes and other early Renaissance philosophers were subjected
>to were immoral attempts of social patterns represented by Church and
>government authorities attempting to suppress the intellectual patterns
>represented by the renaissance philosophers. It was these immoral attempts
>that led to freedom of speech rights now taken for granted in most Western
>democracies to protect intellectual patterns from being immorally destroyed
>by lower level social patterns.
>
>Regards,
>
>-- Sriram
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Joćo Correia da Silva" <joao.silva@optimus.pt>
>To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
>Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 8:44 AM
>Subject: RE: MD Pim Fortuyn
>
>
>>Hi Bo & all,
>>
>>
>>JOAO
>>
>>>> 1.
>>>> Sometimes an idea (intellectual level) can transform the social
>>>> level in a way that makes it "of less quality" and more static. The
>>>> victory of the social level value would have been better (of higher
>>>> quality). Right?
>>>>
>>BO
>>
>>> Wrong in my opinion! Ideas as intellectual patterns is problematic. For
>>> example, the "idea" to introduce torture of prisoners isn't
>>>
>intellectual
>
>>> value at all, but very much a social such. It may sound strange to call
>>> this a value, but the general social "urge" is for the individuals to
>>> conform, and from that point of view no treatment is too severe for
>>> dissenters.
>>>
>>JOAO
>>I am questioning the whole of the statement (this came to me after Sam's
>>initial post):
>>"It is moral for an idea to kill a society" (Lila)
>>I was trying to establish its boundaries, but still couln't make it.
>>Thinking of an idea like "torture of prisioners.." as social value that
>>shouldn't prevail over intellectual value may be helpful. I was thinking
>>
>of
>
>>ideas as intellectual patterns that acted upon intellectual and social
>>patterns.
>>
>>
>>
>>JOAO
>>
>>>> The idea that we are in a war against terror has transformed the
>>>>social level, decreasing its quality and making it more static. Don't
>>>>
>you
>
>>>>agree?
>>>>
>>BO
>>
>>> The social LEVEL can't be transformed, it's as stable as the bed-rock
>>> itself, but the idea that we are at war has shifted Western focus in a
>>> more social direction. This shift may be called a decrease of quality
>>>
>as
>
>>> it is a move to a lower static latch.
>>>
>>JOAO
>>"Be the change that you want to see in the world" - Gandhi
>>He seems to think otherwise ;)
>>Maybe we are saying the same thing. I meant the social static patterns
>>
>(that
>
>>changed significantly after sept11 - the decreasing freedom of expression
>>and the advance of the far-right in Europe worry me).
>>
>>
>>
>>Thanks for your comments,
>>Joao
>>
>>
>>MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
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>>
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>>
>
>
>
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>
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>
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