The statement that it is more moral for an idea to kill a society than for a
society to kill an idea refers to the fact that intellectual patterns of
value are morally superior to social patterns of value according to the moq.
For example, it was immoral for the Catholic clergy and the Inquisition to
force Galileo to recant his intellectual ideas regarding the solar system
and earth's place in it. That was a lower form of social value devouring a
higher form of intellectual value and thus immoral. Subsequently, after
Galileo's intellectual ideas were adopted by Copernicus and others, much of
the social patterns of the medieval clergy and especially the Inquisition
were destroyed, and this was a moral development. Similarly, the heresy
trials that Hobbes and other early Renaissance philosophers were subjected
to were immoral attempts of social patterns represented by Church and
government authorities attempting to suppress the intellectual patterns
represented by the renaissance philosophers. It was these immoral attempts
that led to freedom of speech rights now taken for granted in most Western
democracies to protect intellectual patterns from being immorally destroyed
by lower level social patterns.
Regards,
-- Sriram
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joćo Correia da Silva" <joao.silva@optimus.pt>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 8:44 AM
Subject: RE: MD Pim Fortuyn
> Hi Bo & all,
>
>
> JOAO
> >> 1.
> >> Sometimes an idea (intellectual level) can transform the social
> >> level in a way that makes it "of less quality" and more static. The
> >> victory of the social level value would have been better (of higher
> >> quality). Right?
>
> BO
> > Wrong in my opinion! Ideas as intellectual patterns is problematic. For
> > example, the "idea" to introduce torture of prisoners isn't
intellectual
> > value at all, but very much a social such. It may sound strange to call
> > this a value, but the general social "urge" is for the individuals to
> > conform, and from that point of view no treatment is too severe for
> > dissenters.
>
> JOAO
> I am questioning the whole of the statement (this came to me after Sam's
> initial post):
> "It is moral for an idea to kill a society" (Lila)
> I was trying to establish its boundaries, but still couln't make it.
> Thinking of an idea like "torture of prisioners.." as social value that
> shouldn't prevail over intellectual value may be helpful. I was thinking
of
> ideas as intellectual patterns that acted upon intellectual and social
> patterns.
>
>
>
> JOAO
> >> The idea that we are in a war against terror has transformed the
> >> social level, decreasing its quality and making it more static. Don't
you
> >> agree?
>
> BO
> > The social LEVEL can't be transformed, it's as stable as the bed-rock
> > itself, but the idea that we are at war has shifted Western focus in a
> > more social direction. This shift may be called a decrease of quality
as
> > it is a move to a lower static latch.
>
> JOAO
> "Be the change that you want to see in the world" - Gandhi
> He seems to think otherwise ;)
> Maybe we are saying the same thing. I meant the social static patterns
(that
> changed significantly after sept11 - the decreasing freedom of expression
> and the advance of the far-right in Europe worry me).
>
>
>
> Thanks for your comments,
> Joao
>
>
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