Hi Wavedave
I don't know if I pester you, but there was a portion of our dialogue
some time back that you overlooked ...deliberately or? It went like this
(3WD from before)
> > What is important is that in the MoQ "man is a measure of all things"
> > and this is a continuation of one of the primary tenents of both
> > pragmatism and empiricism. Once this is said there soon follows the
> > cries of "idealism" and "subjectivism" like your....
(Me):
> How can you say that the MOQ says "man is the measure of all
> things"? OK, Phaedrus of ZAMM sympathizing with the Sophists (of
> which Protagoras with the said proverb is the most famous) ) looks like
> the Quality idea is a retro-movement to the said stance, but that is to
> ignore MOQ proper. In it's light the Greek experience is Intellect
> breaking free from social dominance and accordingly: What the Sophists
> stands for is social value: EVERYTHING IS WHAT SOCIETY (MAN) DECIDES!
> Maybe it's important to disagree with me, but how this obvious point -
> where the MOQ really sparkles - can be overlooked is a mystery.
ZAMM and LILA are often used alternatively to prove different views.
Most often I have relied on LILA because that's the MOQ "vade-
mecum", while ZAMM is the story of how the basic Q-Idea was
conceived and born, but the two works must be harmonized in some
way, and my effort to that goal is that the emergence of SOM (in ZMM)
just as easily can be interpreted as the intellectual level. This epiphany
resulted in my SOLAQI, but another consequence is the one I hinted to
above ...
... if the Greek thinkers - climaxing with Socrates and Plato -
represented intellectual value, then the Sophists (who Phaedrus
identifies with) must have represented the value preceding Intellect,
namely Society, and they taught that man is the measure of all things,
which fits almost uncannily: Social value's essence is that man - or
society - is the measure of all things.
I continued in a self-righteous tone:
> Maybe it's important to disagree with me, but how this obvious point -
> where the MOQ really sparkles - can be overlooked is a mystery.
Your reason for not commenting it may be that your message grew too
long, but do it a turn now. The motivation for my bringing it up again is
that it sheds a new light on the recent "man-as-the-(sole)-social-value
"carrier" issue (that came up along with the Pirsig annotations). This
quandary (that even you said you were uncomfortable with) makes the
intellect even more man-centred and gives the Beasly clique free
ammunition.
Don't you see that the SOLAQI interpretation is the only way to
harmonize ZAMM and LILA ....as well as solving every ill there is?
Enough, THINK about it .... for a while.
Bo
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