Maybe in MOQ epiphany is the measure of all things.
maggie
On Monday, May 20, 2002, at 04:01 AM, skutvik@online.no wrote:
> Hi Wavedave
> I don't know if I pester you, but there was a portion of our dialogue
> some time back that you overlooked ...deliberately or? It went like this
>
> (3WD from before)
>>> What is important is that in the MoQ "man is a measure of all things"
>>> and this is a continuation of one of the primary tenents of both
>>> pragmatism and empiricism. Once this is said there soon follows the
>>> cries of "idealism" and "subjectivism" like your....
>
> (Me):
>> How can you say that the MOQ says "man is the measure of all
>> things"? OK, Phaedrus of ZAMM sympathizing with the Sophists (of
>> which Protagoras with the said proverb is the most famous) ) looks
>> like
>> the Quality idea is a retro-movement to the said stance, but that is to
>> ignore MOQ proper. In it's light the Greek experience is Intellect
>> breaking free from social dominance and accordingly: What the Sophists
>> stands for is social value: EVERYTHING IS WHAT SOCIETY (MAN) DECIDES!
>> Maybe it's important to disagree with me, but how this obvious point -
>> where the MOQ really sparkles - can be overlooked is a mystery.
>
> ZAMM and LILA are often used alternatively to prove different views.
> Most often I have relied on LILA because that's the MOQ "vade-
> mecum", while ZAMM is the story of how the basic Q-Idea was
> conceived and born, but the two works must be harmonized in some
> way, and my effort to that goal is that the emergence of SOM (in ZMM)
> just as easily can be interpreted as the intellectual level. This
> epiphany
> resulted in my SOLAQI, but another consequence is the one I hinted to
> above ...
>
> ... if the Greek thinkers - climaxing with Socrates and Plato -
> represented intellectual value, then the Sophists (who Phaedrus
> identifies with) must have represented the value preceding Intellect,
> namely Society, and they taught that man is the measure of all things,
> which fits almost uncannily: Social value's essence is that man - or
> society - is the measure of all things.
>
> I continued in a self-righteous tone:
>
>> Maybe it's important to disagree with me, but how this obvious point -
>> where the MOQ really sparkles - can be overlooked is a mystery.
>
> Your reason for not commenting it may be that your message grew too
> long, but do it a turn now. The motivation for my bringing it up again
> is
> that it sheds a new light on the recent "man-as-the-(sole)-social-value
> "carrier" issue (that came up along with the Pirsig annotations). This
> quandary (that even you said you were uncomfortable with) makes the
> intellect even more man-centred and gives the Beasly clique free
> ammunition.
>
> Don't you see that the SOLAQI interpretation is the only way to
> harmonize ZAMM and LILA ....as well as solving every ill there is?
> Enough, THINK about it .... for a while.
>
> Bo
>
>
>
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