Sorry for the second email on the same subject:
Hey dave,
Jaron included something i think is of significance in the
social/intellecual question in his SNEW response, he said:
The names
'north', 'south', etc. are human inventions [in this
example English language] and thus first an invention
of a person therefore an Intelectual pattern. Once the
words and the concept that they refer to became
accepted by the society as a convention used by all
then it became a social pattern.
What this means:
you say that symbolic communication, as part of the social level, came
before the intellect. Pirsig defines the intel level in his 43rd annotation
as "the manipulation of language derived symbols for experience". If the
intel level is the manipulation of symbols, how did symbols evolve before
intellect? whats the purpose of symbols before they can be manipulated?
what is symbolic communication if it isnt the manipulation of symbols?
Jaron's insight points out that it requires the capacity to manipulate
symbols and the need for symbols to manipulate to develope words. The idea
of your social level, where there are symbols but no means to manipulate
them and therefore no unique sentances and therefore no symbolic
communication but yet, there are symbols without purpose, well forgive me
for thinking this sounds meaningless for a comprehensive metaphysics.
perhaps this isnt what you were suggesting.
But you point to caveman drawings as examples of symbols before intellect...
Did you see 2001? i think the opening scene is a good depiction of the
birth of the intelectual level. the use of tools and problem solving
intelligence require the manipulation of symbols in the mind. how does a
caveman draw without being able to manipulate the idea of "piece of chalk"
in his mind and translate that to the calculated movements of his hand? How
could he have an idea of chalk and not beable to manipulate it? symbols and
their manipulation nessicarily arose at the same time, as one is meaningless
without the other.
Elliot
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