brilliant elliot
>From: "elliot hallmark" <onoffononoffon@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>Subject: Re: MD Is Society Making Progress?
>Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 23:40:42 +0000
>
>Hi platt and wim,
>
>the questions of effort and reward raised in this thread are, i believe,
>not
>central to utopian questions. Central to marxian thought is the idea
>supported wholeheartedly by the MoQ, this idea is work as an ends in itself
>and not a means. Work as an ends becomes the exploration of Quality
>itself,
>rather than symbols such as money or social standing. I think it is not
>distribution of goods but the freedom for individuals to pursue Quality
>both
>in work and in free time that defines the next stage of human civilization.
>My problem with Wim's effort model is this (added to Platt's questions):
>If
>someone puts in amazing effort for thier entire lives in a job which they
>despise for the attainment of material wealth, are they the happiest the
>can
>be? is this how a utopian society would function? If the drive to attain
>commodities is not addressed before world wide wealth is made available,
>then what we have is the most dispicable advancement of One Dimensional
>society: the worl becomes a well greased machine of production and
>consumption functioning for social purposes rather than intellectual ones.
>The problem is not with the distribution of the pie but in the quest for
>pie
>itself rather than Qulaity. The revolution then is an intellectual one,
>one
>of individual need structures, not of the social structure. Freedom and
>happiness imposed by a system is not true freedom (nor dare i say, true
>happiness).
>
>Attempts to acieve utopia through social structures have been outright
>failures ranging from Lenin's vanguard party to the slaughters of Pol Pot.
>Even in Cuba, if material wealth could be achieved by a large portion of
>the
>population, would not the population follow the same pattern of consumerism
>which their leader follows? then effort, profit and loss remain the static
>SOM mode of operation. In MoQ, without subjects and objests, what is there
>to gain? Just keep the biological level strong, the social broad enough to
>support a dynamic intellect and let the intellect pursue Quality. This is
>not enough space to say all i really want, When Horse posts my essay on
>this
>subject (revolution) then perhaps the idea will be more clear. The ideal
>society is in a few words, one where men are free to pursue their personal
>goals, not one where commodities are evenly distributed.
>
>
>"It took Britain half the resources of the planet to achieve its
>prosperity;
>how many planets will a country like India require?" --(Mahatma Gandhi on
>the question whether India would reach Britain's standard of living after
>independence)
>
>Also, in the effort model, what if technology makes human effort to provide
>for needs such as food and electricity almost nil? Do we make people work
>unnessicarily so that they may continue to recieve paychecks so the economy
>doesnt collapse? Do we produce way more then we need so that everyone has
>an arbitrary job to fulfill? There are only so many things that need to be
>done to keep the biological and the social running, and rather than do more
>than the minimum shouldn't we allow for freedom to pursue personal
>projects?
>
>"demand the impossible" (Paris '68 graffiti),
>Elliot
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
>http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
>
>MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
>Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
>MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
>
>To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
>http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
>
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Sat Aug 17 2002 - 16:02:16 BST