thanks for the comments Gary:
>Gary's response: Your getting tool trapped. Our minds process thoughts
>sequentially. Our language string ideas sequentially. But that sequence
>is
>an event occuring on all 4 levels of reality. Intelectual Level and Social
>Level existed and were born at the same time! When our first Homo Sapien
>ancestors had an event & experience of that event in what is commonly
>called
>the mind. Social existed whenever two pre-Homo Sapiens interacted. Out of
>that common interaction of pre-Homo Sapiens the Social Level ideas were
>created. Each shaped and were shaped by the other. The common shared
>interactions are the Social Level events and the internal processing of
>those events are the Intelectual Level. They grew up together and over
>time
>get past down as conventions: language & culture.
Elliot:
I think we both undersand this point, but this isnt really what we are
discussing. WE talking about the evolution of the levels as they took place
before either of us exsisted. If you want to make the point that thats
degenerate because all of this exsistance (in organic, biological, etc.)
rests softly on the intellectual level, well thats not a hard arguement to
make. Asuume for a second however that there is exsistance without
experience and the universe progressed along the lines described by science
(big bang, formulation of atom, molucules, planets, life, humans) before we
were born. Thus we see that the inorganic and the biological did not come
into exsistance at the same point as some claim the social and intellectual
did.
Also, you comment about how a flag and a copyright symbol are symbols but
not words. That wasnt really my point either. My point was that the
exsistance of any symbol, flags included, require a base of intellectual
understanding. Do you think pre-homo sapiens waved flags around without any
ability to talk about what they symbolize? what needs to be symbolized if
it cant be thought about thorough symbolic manipulation? My point is
symbols and symbolic interaction nessicarily began at the same time. So
although symbols are now part of the social level, the social level must be
more than that so that it could exsist before symbols (whose exsistance is
predicated on the ability to manipulate symbols) and therefore intellect.
The social exsisted before intellect as biology exsisted before societies
and inorganic matter before biology. thats how evolution works.
Elliot
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