Hey Elliot,
--- elliot hallmark <onoffononoffon@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> Hey gary,
>
> In discussing the various levels you said this:
> >3rd level: The interaction of me observing you can
> be described at this
> >level. Why am I there? Am I breaking any laws of
> the human culture that we
> >belong to, such as 'trespassing, 'invasion of your
> privacy' , 'acting as a
> >peeping Tom'? All of these questions are
> describing my actions on this
> >human cultural and public, communal, collective
> level. The newspaper, the
> >house, the chair are presumably all products that
> David purchased. The act
> >of purchasing is a social interaction. The idea
> that David can purchase
> >and own those objects are a social level construct.
> The language the words
> >on the newspaper is written in is a human cultural
> collective invention.
>
> First I'd like to say that I agree with you in
> almost every respect. You
> miss one small thing in my opinion that is
> important. Each level is not
> only based on the one before it, but made out of it,
> or rather, made out of
> units of the greater level. The entire human race
> (biology) is made out of a
> small portion of the inorganic level. Societies are
> made out of a small
> potion of the human race. The social then, although
> containing interaction,
> cannot be limited to that. Inside each individual
> exsists a reflection of
> the greater social pattern which is woven to form
> higher level thoughts.
> Not only does the social level include you watching
> david, but it also
> includes the structure of language which exsists
> inside david.
>
> Please forgive my use of the great ultimate metaphor
> to describe something
> other than the great ultimate. The social is the
> moon, the intellectual is
> ripples in individual bodies of water. Each puddle,
> ocean, etc. relects the
> moon within itself, but distortion on the surface
> weave the light in to much
> more complex patterns.
>
> Maybe its not a big point, but it helps in
> consistancy. The inorganic level
> is huge but made up of many many atoms, the
> biological level is vast but
> made up of many bodies, the social level is large
> but made up of individual
> units which must be included in every body of the
> biological. these units
> are difficult to vislize, but they are mores,
> standards and languages which
> indeed exsist inside every person but are not
> thoughts and although they can
> be thought about, those thoughts are 4th level and
> not 3rd.
>
> Your view had the social as alone "out there", with
> inorganic, biological
> and intellectual all much more solid things "inside"
> humans. But
> interaction is definately key as an aspect of the
> social, dont get me wrong.
>
> Elliot
Gary's reponse: Absolutely! You got it! right on! I
had only listed somet items, just trying to give an
example of the kind of holoarchical continuum analysis
would be like. Everything is parts and wholes
simultaneously depending on how you view the 'thing',
up through each stable pattern level.
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