Dear Bo,
You wrote 21/5 10:50 +0200:
'to say that [SOM and MoQ] both are intellectual patterns makes Q-intellect
identical to SOM's "mind"; everything is mental constructs, theories, maps
... and what the MOQ was supposed to be a relief from
comes rushing to the fore again.
A solution is to call SOM a low intellectual level and the MOQ a high one,
but are there any such examples at the other levels.'
You probably know what I think already, but let's try again:
What's wrong with making the intellectual level identical with SOM's "mind"?
(Pirsig did so himself in annotation 25 -in my version- of 'Lila's Child':
'For purposes of MOQ precision let's say that the intellectual level is the
same as mind.') MoQ is supposed to be a relief from a dichotomy of 'mind'
versus 'matter' in which only the last is supposed to be 'real'. A MoQ in
which 'mind' is identical with the intellectual level is still a relief from
this dichotomy of 'not real' versus 'real' as long as it states that 'mind'
also consists of static pattern of values and that intellectual value, even
if not identical to inorganic and biological value, is equally real. It is
even more of a relief from that dichotomy because it postulates a social
level between 'mind' and 'matter'. It is only when we blur the distinction
between the social level and intellectual level (e.g. by talking about
'social thinking' and 'intellectual thinking' or about 'social values' and
'intellectual values' expressing themselves in political issues) that a MoQ
becomes less of a relief.
As for the possibility for patterns of values of the same level to be of
lower or higher quality, please re-read the 'Overdoing the dynamic' thread
of December last year and January this year. Presupposing the existence of
low/high quality inorganic/biological/social/intellectual patterns of
values, it started with Roger's question & statement:
'What do the patterns of higher quality have that those of destruction,
decay and disorder don't? That is to me the fundamental question arising out
of the MOQ.'
It concluded (in my words) that higher quality patterns of values are more
stable and more versatile than lower quality patterns of values fo the same
level AND are more in harmony with patterns of values of the next higher
level.
This thread contained lots of the kind of examples you ask for.
With friendly greetings,
Wim
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