To Elliot, Squonk, David and Erin
ELLIOT::
...the nessicites of mass
production blindly create ugly and wasteful things
ROG:
I must agree with you here. The free enterprise system also has its defects.
It may produce more efficiently than any other system, but we can certainly
question what it produces some of the time. In general, it produces that
which is actually valued. The lowest common denominator of what people value
isn't exactly something to lift one's spirits.
Another problem with free enterprise is that it has the potential to get into
what is known in evolution as an "arms race". Companies can spend
ever-increasing amounts on advertising and all competitors must spend as well
just to keep up. Coke and Pepsi is a perfect example. Arms races can often
lead to inefficient practices.
SQUONK (quotes):
A doctor can be just as creative as a mathematician or a sculptor...All i ask
is to be free from doing any damn thing as long as it serves pure
economics...If one cares then quality experience is not far behind.
DMB:
Malcom Forbes spoke at my college commencement ceremony. He urged us to just
do whatever we loved, and promised that this was the only true way to become
wealthy. And he wasn't just talking about money.
That's my attitude too. The trick is to find something that you'd do whether
you were paid for it or not. Or as a line in a song goes, "If they pay me,
well that's great. But its just gravy. I'd do it anyway."
ROG:
The position that Squonk and David are espousing is the same one I made two
weeks ago when I wrote:
"Someone who spends their life doing something they hate is a fool. May I
suggest a simpler, less utopian solution? Try to find a job you like and that
you learn and grow in. Modern societies have a wealth of options for those
that are really interested."
and...
"The problem I have is that you seem to suggest that a plumber can't be happy
plumbing or that a motorcycle mechanic can't be happy working on motorcycles.
The Psychologist M. Csikszentmihalyi -- renowned for writing on "Flow" which
is his term for optimal experience, or self actualization -- has shown that
the majority of 'optimal experience' occurs at work. "
my main point (to Elliot) was...
"Don't get me wrong, I am all for people pursuing personal projects, but I
find it laughable that anyone expects them to be paid for it - unless it
also adds value to others. You are confusing work and play. I am fine with
treating work (meaning something that others' value) as play, but it is
quite another to suggest that whatever people choose to pursue for its own
sake should also be compensated as work. And that is where you seem to go!"
DMB:
Roger, its not a contest between lazy slackers and wage slaves. Its not a
choice between destroying the economy and working your whole life in pursuit
of someone else's goals. How dismal that would be. I think Elliot and Squonk
are trying to get at a high quality of life every bit as much as you are.
They want to go beyond both slackerdom and wage slavery. It takes a little
imagination, but that's ok.
ROG:
I agree (as indicated above) with your take on the issue. However, I stand
by my position that Elliot's actual utopia -- which basically involves people
being paid by someone for whatever they want to do -- would indeed undermine
the economy.
DMB:
The fact that people have to sell their souls in order to fill their bellies
is nothing to be happy about.
ROG:
Now this is an odd twist to the rest of your post. I thought we agreed that
the best solution was to work at something you enjoy? Modern free enterprise
societies offer more variety and freedom to pursue a career than any other
system I know of. In addition, as I wrote a few weeks ago, we have made a
lot of progress in reducing the amount of time people spend at work (annual
work hours is one half of what it was 150 years ago, and is still dropping).
My point is that we need to differentiate the solutions of modern economic
systems from the problems. Are we where we need to be? No. Are we on the
right path? We seem to be. Let's not go backward on what IS working though.
Finally, to be a devil's advocate, let me rewrite your phrase... "The fact
that people can get all the food, protection and material things they need by
doing what they enjoy (as long as it adds value to others) is truly
miraculous."
Rog
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