Val,
Well, you may wish to rephrase it in this way, but Kuhlewind's position
is that you are wrong to do so. That is, it is not a matter of discussed
experience versus "actual" experience, but that we, so long as we are
caught in S/O dualism CANNOT experience the present. Or, to put it in
other terms, the present is True Reality, which requires transcendence
to be a part of.
And, just to make things interesting, one characterization of Derrida's
work is that of deconstructing the "metaphysics of presence". Derrida,
of course, is no mystic, but still, I don't think this is unrelated.
Lastly, a while back I objected to the sentiment of "anything languaged
is not the thing itself", not because it is untrue (the English word
"cow" is not a cow) but in the thought that there is any thing (which
excludes Quality, which is not a thing) that is not itself another sign
in another language, albeit one not of spoken words or marks on paper. I
feel the "the map is not the territory" mantra is SOM-ish.
- Scott
Valdeane W. Brown, Ph.D. wrote:
> Scott:
>
> I would repharase that somewhat:
>
> Experience is. Experiencing is.
>
> Anything languaged is not the thing itself.
>
> Discussed experience was.
>
> Discussed experience is of the past.
>
> Thought about experience is of the past.
>
> val
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk
> [mailto:owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk]On Behalf Of Scott R
> Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 9:00 PM
> To: moq_discuss@moq.org
> Subject: Re: MD What is SOM?
>
>
> Erin,
>
> enoonan wrote:
>
>
>>Hi Squonk,
>>
>>I have serious doubts whether a person can experience the NOW, I think
>>it would be too overwhelming.
>>
>
>
> You might be interested in the following, from Georg Kuhlewind's "Stages
> of Consciousness", p. 25:
>
> "...consciousness only "experiences" the already-thought, whereas the
> *process* of thinking lies *before* what has been thought. Therefore
> this process -- the coming into being of thought -- is preconscious.
> Without finished thoughts and finished representations, there is no
> consciousness in the usual sense of the word."
>
> That is, experience is always experience of the past, for normal
> consciousness.
>
> - Scott
>
>
>
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