Scott:
To me the "discussions" can be internal as well as external.
To frame "True Reality" in juxtaposition to ..... is, yet again, another
s/o.
Yah, Derrida -- takes me back to graduate school at Duquesne....
Any mantra is S/O -- even that one. To me, G.Spenser Brown,'s "Laws of
Form" makes for an interesting and "stark" or "sparse" starting point.
But, overall, I'm late to this party so perhaps I'll "lurk" a bit to begin
to get oriented.
val
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk
[mailto:owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk]On Behalf Of Scott R
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 6:29 PM
To: moq_discuss@moq.org
Subject: Re: MD What is SOM?
Val,
Well, you may wish to rephrase it in this way, but Kuhlewind's position
is that you are wrong to do so. That is, it is not a matter of discussed
experience versus "actual" experience, but that we, so long as we are
caught in S/O dualism CANNOT experience the present. Or, to put it in
other terms, the present is True Reality, which requires transcendence
to be a part of.
And, just to make things interesting, one characterization of Derrida's
work is that of deconstructing the "metaphysics of presence". Derrida,
of course, is no mystic, but still, I don't think this is unrelated.
Lastly, a while back I objected to the sentiment of "anything languaged
is not the thing itself", not because it is untrue (the English word
"cow" is not a cow) but in the thought that there is any thing (which
excludes Quality, which is not a thing) that is not itself another sign
in another language, albeit one not of spoken words or marks on paper. I
feel the "the map is not the territory" mantra is SOM-ish.
- Scott
Valdeane W. Brown, Ph.D. wrote:
> Scott:
>
> I would repharase that somewhat:
>
> Experience is. Experiencing is.
>
> Anything languaged is not the thing itself.
>
> Discussed experience was.
>
> Discussed experience is of the past.
>
> Thought about experience is of the past.
>
> val
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk
> [mailto:owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk]On Behalf Of Scott R
> Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 9:00 PM
> To: moq_discuss@moq.org
> Subject: Re: MD What is SOM?
>
>
> Erin,
>
> enoonan wrote:
>
>
>>Hi Squonk,
>>
>>I have serious doubts whether a person can experience the NOW, I think
>>it would be too overwhelming.
>>
>
>
> You might be interested in the following, from Georg Kuhlewind's "Stages
> of Consciousness", p. 25:
>
> "...consciousness only "experiences" the already-thought, whereas the
> *process* of thinking lies *before* what has been thought. Therefore
> this process -- the coming into being of thought -- is preconscious.
> Without finished thoughts and finished representations, there is no
> consciousness in the usual sense of the word."
>
> That is, experience is always experience of the past, for normal
> consciousness.
>
> - Scott
>
>
>
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