From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Mon Oct 28 2002 - 00:51:00 GMT
Steve and all you would-be gnostics:
> DMB had said:
> No doubt the imperitive of this vision goes beyond intellect, but his main
> thing, his core message was "know thyself". If there such a thing as Jesus
> rule numero uno that would be it. As in the gospel of Thomas, "When you
know
> yourselves, then... you will understand that you are the children of the
> living Father". It isn't exactly the same as Pirsig's intellectual level,
> that would be anachronistic in so many ways, but it practically makes
> reflection and contemplation into a mission from god. That's close enough
> for jazz and its close enough for me.
Steve replied:
The "know thyself" thing is a bit of a cliché with a "what's so funny about
peace, love and understanding?" kind of irony to it. It has lost its
meaning to popular culture, though I think it is probably an important idea.
I would love to hear DMB or anyone else unpack it a little. What does "know
thyself" mean?
Dmb says:
I know. For me the phrase tends to conjure up an unwritten joke about
masterbation. It has something to do with knowing yourself in a biblical
way.
I don't know if this teaching can really be attributed to the historical
figure, but the gnostics certainly made a big deal out of it. Pagels likes
to quote one along similar lines. it goes alot like this, "If you fail to
bring forth what is within you it will destroy you, but if you do bring
forth what is within you it will save you." I suppose she likes it because
it holds up in our own time, and can even be seen as psychologically sound.
One could say that the failure to confront one's demons and one's dark side
will only result in catastrophic neurosis, but if one does integrate these
aspects of the personality, you'll begin to discover who you really are. Add
to this the imperitive to know thyself and the idea that the kingdom of
heaven is within and the whole thing starts to look like a metaphorical
picture of the evolution of consciousness. Even further, the ultimate aim in
getting to know yourself is to discover your own divinity, your own identity
with the ground of being. Wilber has pushed developmental psychology even
into these areas.
In Pirsigian terms: something like migrating up through the levels toward
DQ.
Here's a little thing on a related topic; what kinds of bad things happen
when people don't know themselves. There's more inside of us than demons and
dark sides, but it serves as an interesting example because we're talking
about stuff people DON'T WANT TO KNOW about themselves. In an effort to hide
ugly things from themselves they dump it on the other guys lap. Its alot
like what Pirsig describes as "a karma dump", but psychology calls it
projection. Its not a conscious effort. The racist doesn't realize that what
he hates is inside himself. The sexist doesn't know its about self-loathing,
he or she thinks gender's the thing. Projection. It takes a certain
darkness, a certain self-ignorance. Its about lying to yourself about who
you really are, pretending it belongs only to those other kinds of bad
people. When projection happens on a collective level it can be quite
deadly. But this is the bad side of it. The same kind of mechanisms, or
whatever, that allow projections also allow us to sympathize with and
understand others. If we can imagine ourselves in the other guys shoes
without the need to exorcise our own demons, we're more likely to imagine
those shoes more accurately and rightly. Failing to bring forth what is
within really can wreck a person.
Thanks.
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