From: Steve Peterson (speterson@fast.net)
Date: Tue Oct 29 2002 - 21:54:04 GMT
DMB, erin, and all,
>>>
>>> Sam agreed with Steve:
>>> Although doubtless some would say I too have a poor grasp of the MoQ given
>>> this campaign, I think you've understood it well. I particularly agree with
>>> you when you say: "The four levels of Value (not values) are not types of
>>> things but ways of valuing." I think that's very important (and I tried to
>>> shape my level-four proposal according to that understanding in my most
>>> recent substantial post).
DMB says:
>>> It is true that each level represents a level of awareness, but Pirsig is
>>> also talking about ontological reality. The MOQ paints them as one and the
>>> same so that even something as mundane as a chair is composed of little
>>> moral orders. He even claims that his MOQ is exhaustive, that everything in
>>> the world can fit into it. Its about the real world...
>>>
>> Steve says:
>> Though every thing is composed of moral orders, this isn't necessarily the
>> same as saying that every thing is either an inorganic, a biological, a
>> social, or an intellectual thing. Or is it?
>>
>
> Pirsig talks how these could be thought of as 4 encyclopedia into which
> everything would fit. I think for it is a good as a guide but it would be
> pretty arrogant to assume that there are not higher levels that we are not
> aware of.. So I think as our awarness of the intellectual level develops we
> could see that there are more...It's hard to say if something belongs in the
> fourth level when you are not really clear what the fourth level is..
>
> erin
Steve says:
If every thing can be categorized as an inorganic, a biological, a
social, or an intellectual thing, then what kind of thing is a human being?
(DMB, what kind of a thing is a chair?)
I don't think things can be categorized in this way, though they may consist
of patterns of these four types of Value (ways of valuing). (Recall, I am
calling any pattern of Value a thing.)
My original point, by the way, is that "Democracy" can't be categorized as a
social or an intellectual thing any more than a person can. Both can be
valued on different levels.
Steve
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