Donny, Lithien, Glove, Kilian, Xcto and All.
LITHIEN
started the commotion by posing the schoolboy shooting problem (the
"ambush" hereafter), but each time I was about to send a
reply a new and weighty input arrived.
DONNY.
I agree with you about the incident being a social celebrity thing
and not any intellectual vs society, and for sure not a survival
necessity. However.............
GLOVE
made me think twice if the planning of the ambush was Q-intellect at
work or. It sounded so in the quoted passage from LILA. Phew! It
brings us back to the Q-intellect; its origin and role, an unresolved
topic that has followed our discussion from day one. I have proposed
it as the next month's topic.
XCTO
said something in the "coconut" passage, that has a bearing on it:
> I would say that the coconut problem is an early social function from which
> intellect is derived. I would say it is not an intellectual pattern in that
> the monkey doesnot think of stone, a tool that breaks things. It is the
> beginning of the symbol of tool to use, but it is a direct stone-coconut
> connection. A monkey doesn't have the immediate ability to think, what else
> could I use this tool for. It is a socially derived value pattern much like
> the monkey would use in finding which food is good to eat; the monkey learns
> it socially. Language is first a social tool, not an intellectual one, and
> most people use it this way 95% of their life. Think about what people really
> talk about most of the time and you will see it.
This I agree with wholeheartedly, particularly about language which
it's exactly my own position. The last line reminded me of ...? who
said he could tell what his mother would say most of the time :-)
One more thing. Xcto uses the expression "early social". I have
also often felt the need for a distinction of - say - low, middle
or high Social, Biological...etc, but have resisted that for fear of
complicating matter.
KILIAN
Added a few more riddles to the ambush case when he asked if humans
have instincts? I think it is merely a SOM term for MOQ's Biological
level, but this level knows nothing of "violence", that's language,
ie: Intellect or (high) social.
He went on to ask if an action can take place on many levels.
In my opinion yes - ALWAYS - but not necessarily simultaneously. In
this particular case the Inorganic values did their "duty": The
chemical reactions and other interactions took place, the bullets
followed their trajectories etc. At the Biological level the bodies
of the victims tried to resist the effects of the wounds in countless
ways; some succeeded some not. At the Social level emotions flared up
in many and possibly contrasting ways. Fright, anger, sympathy,
hatred, compassion...etc. At the Intellect we know what takes
place, we are at it: discussions of who are to blame, what the
motivation was, how to avoid.....etc.
AFTERWORD.
There is a lot of profound thinking going on at the present, but I
must ask you all to edit your messages well so that we know who says
what and to whom. The amount of mail is so great that one easily gets
lost in the crowd. Please use the > sign in various numbers in
front of EACH line. I asked Lithien to drop the HTML, the reason is
that when opening it as a regular message the line does not "wrap"
but continues indefinitely to the right and cannot be printed. In the
browser all identification (date, from,subject) is missing...at my
end at least. :-)
Thank you all.
Bodvar
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