hi, richard, you said:
I still regard ZAMM as the far more impressive and important
work (despite what RMP himself thinks). Maybe because ZAMM simply points
you in a direction that LILA tries to drag you in.
my comment:
i will share with you my reason for preferring Lila. instead of feeling
"dragged", i had a very spontaneous but profound reality shift at the end of
the book. it was as if my perception of the world had changed so
dramatically that i was left disoriented and a bit unsteady on my feet. to
realize SOM was an eye opener. so in that sense i prefer Lila over ZaMM.
but, you couldnt have the second without the first. ZaMM explored the limits
of sanity and took us on a journey of discovery...plus it gave us Quality.
Lila, however, places Quality into a scheme of things. In Lila, Pirsig
gives us MOQ and DQ and SOM. he applies what he just presented in ZaMM.
that is why for me it has more "value".
you also said:
So why doesn't "intellectual" come from
"biological"? I would very much like to be corrected on this point. I
hate thinking that Pirsig may have something wrong.
my response:
this is the way i see MOQ: each of the levels gives rise to a more valuable
one. the inorganic develops into the biological...the biological into
society because this will ensure the survival of greater numbers*...and with
the leisure that comes from being safe, well-fed, and acculturated...society
fosters the intellect. each of the previous levels tries to swallow the
next one back to their original state, and therefore that level is at odds
with its precedent one. the one thing they all have in common is Freedom
which is the greatest good. all the levels strive for freedom from the
previous one.
*animals like ants, monkeys, bees have highly developed social systems but
you would hardly characterize them as being intellectual. i think that may
be the difference between the way you see society and Pirsig does.
what do you think?
Lithien
http://members.tripod.com/~lithien/Lila2.html
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Budd <rmb29@cornell.edu>
To: moq_discuss@moq.org <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Date: Tuesday, October 27, 1998 8:55 PM
Subject: MD Society and Intellect
>For Lithien-
>Once again I appreciate you taking the time to explain some points to me I
>may or may not be fuzzy on. I've read ZAMM over ten times and LILA about
>six and so far I still regard ZAMM as the far more impressive and important
>work (despite what RMP himself thinks). Maybe because ZAMM simply points
>you in a direction that LILA tries to drag you in. I really loved ZAMM for
>not trying to "say" it, if you know what I mean. I sort of resented LILA
>for its turn around of attitude. Not that there isn't a wealth of great
>ideas in LILA, I just don't think they're quite as well thought out or well
>developed (I know this attitude isn't going to win me any friends here, but
>hey, popularity isn't necessarily Quality, right?). Anyway...
>
>Perhaps I miss phrased what I was asking before. Let's try it this way...
>Individuals, not societies, are the source of ideas. Societies may
>eventually grow to embody and value those ideas, but they start with a
>person, be it Buddha or Jesus or Bodhi Dharma or Plato or Robert M. Pirsig.
> In fact you could use Pirsig's description of the formation of common
>sense from ZAMM to explain how these values are formed: "We see what we see
>because these ghosts show it to us, ghosts of Moses and Christ and the
>Buddha, and Plato, and Descartes and Rousseau and Jefferson and Lincoln, on
>and on and on..." Societies may seize on these ideas and combine them, but
>they originate from individuals. So why doesn't "intellectual" come from
>"biological"? I would very much like to be corrected on this point. I
>hate thinking that Pirsig may have something wrong. His ideas have changed
>the way I see everything and I want nothing more than to understand them as
>completely as possible.
>
>Rick
>
>
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