Hello, all!
"Jay Stricklin" wrote:
>
> I>f all of this Moq stuff holds water, something, probably not the MoQ, is
> >going to fill this gap. I content that the Moslem faith is significant
> > contender.
Why not, indeed? Probably not in the West. The base is all wrong.
> I see, not so much Moslem Ideals, but the hybrid, race tension
> > fuled "happening" in popular western culture, which what is "happening" in
> > western culture has undisputedly had an enormous influence over the rest
> of
> > the (connected) world.
>
> >Gap? I assume you are talking about the difference between the "moralless
> >objectivity" and reality. How does the social context of the Moslem faith
> >have anything to do with it?
>
> xcto, You assume that our objectives are the same. Did you miss Pirsig's
> illumination of the social chaos that has occurred as a result of SOM. Note
> in the quote from my original post that it reads the "Paralyses of America"
> not the paralyses of "the intellectual community of who-says, that are
> fighting it out in a temporal intellectual battle between SOM and MoQ." I
> was using Pirsigs words to illustrate the real, every day devastation that
> the SOM has wrought on American culture, and the dim possibility of the
> Moslem faiths role in the next latching on, and the fact that if all of this
> is true, there will most likely be some moral system (if not the MoQ) that
> will play a role in either the current systems collapse, or its "ka-chink"
> forward towards quality. Evolution's journey towards quality, has by proof
> of the history of events, not always been a pretty one, and I just wanted to
> throw this possibility out. Its not easy to try and look into the future.
I think that the choice is MOQ (or its equivalent) or a fall back to a more
repressive Christian latch here in the West, much as the fundies in the Moslem
sphere.
> >"It is this intellectual pattern of amoral "objectivity" that is to blame
> >for the social deterioration of America, because it has undermined the
> >static social values necessary to prevent deterioration" This sounds like
> > the canvas of a culture in need to "latch on" and some of these new
> American
> ..>interpreted Moslem values are definitely void of "objetivisim" of possibly
> >any value.
>
"Value" is what the MOQ is all about. It's what all religions are about.
> >I don't understand this. The five pillars of Islam are very explicit, but
> >they don't solve the "objective" problem any better than Christianity or
> >Buddhism or others. When you look at the "values" of any religion they are
> >all Social Static Patterns. They may work very well in Biological control,
> >But can you tell us specific values that coiuld be used to dynamically
> improve
> >the Social or Intellectual Levels of the USA?
>
> I wasn't claiming that they did. I'm simply postulating that maybe culture
> as a collective of humans making decisions, may be keenly aware of the
> deficit of a moral system, (look at the rhetoric in the commentary section
> of newspapers) but they may not always choose the best solution for the
> problem.
That's what we're here for. To tell them. Screw 'em they don't get it. vbg
> Look at history.
Specifically the Age of Enlightenment. Voltaire and his friends unleashed an
intellectual assault on French and English society that resulted in the next
great static latch. After an extended period social upheaval and a revolution or
two.
A comparison of then and now seems to produce a quite a few parallels.
> Everything doesn't always make sense, except in
> retrospect, and often not even then.
Maybe you should both look into "The Science of God" by Gerald Schroeder. He is
not the only writer in this field, but he throws out some lucid ideas. The major
religions may have more to contribute to the discussion than you may believe.
Pirsig certainly thought so. That's why his belief that Quality and the Tao are
the same. Some Jewish/Christian/Moslem mystics have had a lot to say about
something that strongly resembles Quality. This point of view doesn't win me many
friends among those who believe religion to be antithetical to reason.
Consider these two statements:
a. Without a strong social level controlling biology, the intellectual level
does not have
the necessary base from which to operate to seek and experience Quality.
b. Without God (your choice) to control the flesh, the spirit can't seek and
commune with God.
Virtually the same?
I am inclined to believe that the form of religion is much less important than
the function. I also think the individual is the place for Quality to make the
difference.
Xcto wrote:
>
> >I think that it is an important fact that African Americans that
> are in prison
> >find a culture that can allow them to more easily integrate in
> society and
> >doesn't compromise they're own beliefs. I think that a comparable
> number of
> >prisoners find god as born-again Christians. In both cases, I
> believe that
> >individuals are better prepared to participate in society because
> of previous
> >low value social patterns.
What?
>
> I agree!!!! I'm not criticizing people getting their lives back together.
> Currently there is no problem. This post was for discussion's sake only.
>
> You see, I spent time in prison,
Great place, huh?
> and I have seen first hand how mindlessly
> many of the inmates "pantomimed" Moslem ritual. My fiancee is Jewish, you
> should see the look on her face when the Name Faracon enters a conversation.
> All you need to become a tyrant is an ego, charisma and God on your side and
> mindless followers in America seem to be a dime a dozen.
>
Farrakan. Robertson. Khomeini. Marx. Sikh. Christian. Hindu. Moslem. Jew. I'm
sure there is a Buddhist zealot in the mix somewhere. There seems to be no
shortage of mindless followers anywhere. There are many reasonable people who are
also religious.
I correspond with one regularly. Some of my best friends...
>
> I must stress I know little about the Moslem faith, and even less about
> Minister Faracon, and I have always believed that there is much more to
> people than meets the eye,
Not much more; the older I get the more transparent people seem to get.
Be well, all!
Don R.
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