David:
Why don't you put toguether a 'topic of the month related to the Mythos'. I
would, only that I already sent my sugestion. (up's this is not the LS, it
is the MD.)
I have study the Mythos of different cultures in my own (read as much as I
could about it) and would love to share that experience with the group and
learn more about it.
The mythos is a very important topic, it is the Core of Pirsig's Phylosophy
( That's my humble opinion).
Let me put it this way. If I was to teach a class on Pirsig's Phylosophy, a
pre-requisite would be a complete course in studies about 'Mythos'.
Besos a todos,
Carmencita.
David Buchanan wrote:
> Fred and all Pirsigites: I'm was very psyched to see the letter from
> Pirsig. Its kinda like having a bootleg recording of my favorite band.
> Its not available in stores, you gotta get it from the hard core fans.
> Thanks tons!
>
> Part of the reasons I failed to post a response to Fred's tale of his
> insanity/enlightenment is my reluctance to interpet the meaning of
> someone else's experience. (Yes, I've had a few mystical experiences
> too.) I mean no one really understands the dream better than the
> dreamer, even with the help of a psychoanalyst. Telling others what such
> experiences mean is a tactic used by the leaders of cults and other
> dysfunctional religious organizations. They will often go so far as to
> claim responsability for the experience, saying "we did that for you".
> (Notice Pirsig went out of his way to NOT take credit for it.)
>
> I've included the section of Pirsig's letter with the hope that we can
> discuss it here amongst the Zen-heads. The big pargraph in the middle
> seems the most interesting, where he starts out with "Prior to
> enlightenment..." and ends with "...this phemonenon." I was startled by
> the phrase "wandering thru the mythos" and his description of the
> "mythos".
>
> To say the mythos is more than just myths may be correct, but its a
> little awkward, so Pirsig says in this case it means "more than just
> legends". He shows what a great writer he is even in a letter! Myths and
> legends are something we almost never discuss, at least since I've been
> here. Yet it seems so essential. Discussions of the mythos would help to
> clarify the distinction between the levels of static patterns,
> especially at the top two levels.
>
> (Bob Wallace sure made a mess of things in today's post, putting
> government at the biological level, economics at the inorganic level,
> putting society over the intellect and all the while providing twisted
> political analysis and tortured historical facts. T'was about the
> ugliest thing I've seen here.)
>
> I'd especially like to focus in on the notion that cultures select their
> finite reality from the mythos. Pirsig seems to be implying that there
> is one mythos from shich every culture on Earth is a derivative; that
> the mythos is much larger than any given individual culture.
> Fascinating, no? Further, Pirsig says "At this time there is an
> abandonment of normal channels of cultural selectivity over thought."
> Which brings me to my question...
>
> WHAT ARE THESE NORMAL CHANNELS OF CULTURAL SELECTIVITY?
> This is not rhetorical. I really don't know.
>
> I've posted a few thoughts about the mythos from a Joseph Campbell
> perspective, who is mentioned in Lila as the author of "THE MASKS OF
> GOD". Pirsig said very near the end of Lila that Campbell's work goes a
> long way toward explaining the nature of the mythos. I guess I'm trying
> to get the ball rolling on that topic again, thanks to Fred.
>
> Here's another question. If the mythos is "the main stream, the whole
> body of every idea that ever existed or can exist which each culture
> selects from", then how is it different than the intellecutal level? I
> mean myths and legends operate on a unconscious social level and help to
> inform the language, but they aren't really ideas in usual sense of the
> word. It where ideas come from to be sure, but it seems the mythos is
> not intellectual per se. Its more basic than that, isn't it?
>
> David B.
>
> P.S. I think Platt is quite right about the naturalistic fallacy
> dissolving in the MOQ. Its a relection of all the classic problems with
> SOM. Is goodness actually in the object or is it merely subjective?
> That's the question really posed by pointing to the naturalistic
> fallacy. The MOQ reders it meaningless. It is a fallacious quest. (Which
> is not to be confused with a fellatio request!)
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DaPhred@aol.com [SMTP:DaPhred@aol.com]
> > Sent: Monday, May 24, 1999 12:30 AM
> > To: moq_discuss@moq.org
> > Subject: Re: MD Platypal Radicii
> >
> > Mr. Pirsig writes,
> >
> > "Making people laugh sympathetically about other people's
> > disabilities
> > is an enormous accomplishment.
> > The fact that you are doing so well at it indicates that the
> > phenomena
> > that you experienced back in your 'insane' days may have been a kind
> > of an
> > enlightenment as well as an insanity. The two tend to overlap.
> > ...Prior to enlightenment there is often a huge opening of the
> > mind to
> > the 'mythos' which in this case means more than just legends. It means
> > the
> > main stream, the whole body of every idea that ever existed or can
> > exist
> > which each culture selects from, calling its own selection 'reality.'
> > At
> > this time there is an abandonment of normal chanels of cultural
> > selectivity
> > over thought. The selection goes sort of crazy and you can think of
> > any damn
> > thing and think it is real and in a sense it is. When you start
> > wandering in
> > this mythos all rules are off and so you can pick up on strange
> > things. I
> > think your mind wanderings about me and the ideas in ZMM and Lila
> > probably
> > had less to do with me personally than with this phenomenom.
> > ...Just before entering the University of Chicago... I
> > experienced a
> > similar pickup on the film 'Orpheus' by Jean Cocteau. I lived inside
> > that
> > film and it had the same sort of effect on me that my book seems to
> > have had
> > on you.
> > ...I'm certainly proud that ZMM has had a similar fuction for you
> > and
> > that you are a part of the crowd of people working to diminish the
> > misery of
> > the world rather than add to it or just ignore it. As I'm sure you
> > know,
> > it's not as easy as it may look."
>
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