In a message dated 5/26/99 10:48:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
rmwj@ix.netcom.com writes:
> The one thing that government cannot exist without is coercion, the
> threat of violence and prison and force. As Mao so accurately noted,
> "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun."
The aim of government is not Political Power and you have not made it true
simply by saying it. I can say "Government will not exist forever with
coercion' with equal truth, but it does not make it true.
> Hitler, Mao, Castro, Lenin, Stalin, Pol Pot all gained control of their
> governments. They did not stand on soapboxes and persuade people to
> commit mass murder.
But we do, right? Judas Priest told me to commit suicide, Quake II taught me
to shoot up my high school.
> Since government is based on coercion, it automatically falls in the
> biological level.
This is where I lose you totally. All my comments that follow are trying to
use your logic...
> Actually it is the interface between society and
> biology. And because it is coercive, it is extremely dangerous...as
> exemplified by the mass murderers I just named.
> Almost all States got their start by one tribe conquering another and
> setting themselves up as rulers (royalty) who exacted tribute (taxes).
> Since they provided no law for the people, people turned to the most
> trusted to settle their disputes...usually clergymen. In this way law
> slowly got its start.
> Because of this, States and law are totally different things. States are
> biological patterns, law is a societal pattern.
> The three basic laws discovered are for protection of life, liberty and
> property.
As a law...these are Social Level? What is the Intellectual level say to
these laws are subject to?
> If everyone followed those laws there would be no crime...no
> murder, no slavery, no theft, no battery, no rape. If States followed
> these laws there would be no war, no genocide...95 percent of the
> problems in the world would cease to exist.
If the laws are social, they wouldn't have been created if the biological
problems didn't exist. By MOQ definition Social Level is created to
constrain the Biological level...
> Intellect is above society. How free can intellect be when it is under
> government control?
> Every special interest group in the world is attempting to gain control
> of the State to force their values on others. Fundamentalists want to
> gain control to outlaw abortion, have mandatory prayer in schools, and
> teach creationism.
Special interest groups are Biological too...They aren't higher than
government are they??? Then we just need more laws right???? a bigger
government, right???
Others want to outlaw their competition to protect
> their wealth. Whoever they are, it is always about using the threat of
> violence to force their values on others.
> Since the State is strictly biological it is utterly, absolutely
> inferior to society. And when it expands, it reaches up and devours law
> and society. Biological values reappear.
> As best as I can figure, States have killed 200 million people in the
> last 100 years.
> And this is the ugliest thing you have ever read here?
> Hm....
> Bob
It's not that your sentiments are ugly, your misunderstanding of the MOQ
confuses it. Most people here believe that Govt is purely social. Law is
Social. The Constitution is Social. The State is Social Level.
The basic rights of human life and liberty...ahhh thats Intellectual Level.
xcto
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