ROGER REPLIES TO DAVID B.
THAT DQ IS 24/7
Hi David and gang!
Let me start with some quotes from David.
DAVID [Combining two posts]:
This is how questions of our perceptions are tied in with the overall
scheme of the MOQ. Epistemologically speaking, our perceptions
are indirect. They are heavily mediated through all the layers of
reality that preceded the intellect in historical evolution.
I'd agree that DQ can be percieved directly,
but not by the intellect. The fact that a baby is one example clearly
shows this direct experience is non-intellectual. An infant has not yet
developed an intellect of even social values. To be moved by music or
shaken by a heart attack doesn't seem particularly intellectual either.
And didn't Pirsig say explicitly that the Brujo was just acting out of
his own internal conflicts and had no "plans" to change his culture. He
just did it, as they say in Nike town. But this has very little to do
with mediation through the levels. DQ is above and beyond all the
static levels. You know, its the first split in the MOQ; static and
Dyanamic Quality.
ROGER:
Another distinction between members is those that view DQ as some hallow
event that
occurs to brujo's, Einsteins and Tibetan monks on days of the total eclipse,
and those of us
that view it as everyday all-day 24/7 experience. David and Glove and others
fall squarely
in the former camp and I fall into the latter. This creates a chasm in
understanding that
constantly interferes with our progress.
Granted, Pirsig uses dramatic moments such as heart attack survivors and
Mystics and
Brujo's to illustrate his points, but he also clearly explains that he is
talking about everyday
experience. The problem is that we tend to lose ourselves in static, veiled
experience that
is a pale shadow of Direct Experience. Mystics and babies and hurricane
survivors are
three vastly different situations to describe the lowering of the veils (in
the baby’s case the
veil hasn't been woven yet).
As for David's comment that "I'd agree that DQ can be percieved directly, but
not by the
intellect." I find it confusing. DQ cannot be perceived, IT IS PERCEPTION.
Perception
realized or conceptualized is sq. The perception can be conceived as
biological (the baby),
social, or intellectual. An intellectual perception is creative thinking.
Sq is patterned,
objectivized past experience. DQ is the eternal now prior to any
categorization.
DAVID:
I'd agree if you'd said the intellectual level
is the most free and has the greatest chance to respond to DQ. It just
seems like a rather obvious contradiction to say that any static level
is dynamic. Wouldn't it be better to say that the intellectual level of
static patterns is the most complex and rapidly evolving level?
ROGER:
Again, I find this confusing. I think it would be best to say that “
experience which we
later reference as intellectual quality is the most free and complex and is
evolving the most
rapidly.”
Later in your post you go on to show how our intellectual models are
interconnected
between the levels. These are pure sq. The MOQ is a high quality
intellectual static
pattern. DQ is direct and unfiltered, unbuffered and unmediated.
Though I was wrong once.....
Rog
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