Hi Anders,
Just a brief answer, I hope to be able to solve your doubt..
x-Patterns exist already when the x-Level is not yet created.
You wrote:
> WE CAN'T
> HAVE SOCIAL LEVEL WITHOUT HAVING A INTELLECTUAL LEVEL FIRST.
Try to change your assertion with:
"WE CAN'T HAVE SOCIAL LEVEL WITHOUT HAVING INTELLECTUAL PATTERNS FIRST."
A level is very different from a class of patterns. In our brain we have
all the
intellectual possibilities to build society; and this was already in bio
level age.
After a bio-Level long time these possibilities have become the "real"
socPoVs, created by bioHumans, and human society was like animal society.
After another long bioLevel time bio-Humans created intPoVs, so human
society begun to develop.
And after another bioLevel long time these socPoVs have become leader of the
evolution; the socLevel was born.
Ciao.
Marco.
-----Messaggio Originale-----
Da: Anders BERGDAHL <abergdahl@businessobjects.com>
A: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Data invio: venerd́ 8 ottobre 1999 15.46
Oggetto: RE: MD WALKING IS A SOCIAL SKILL
>
> I read a reply saying that bee's aren't really social. I like to continue
on
> that and explain why the social/intellectual division seems strange to me.
I
> will use some examples from Searle to make my point and a really recommend
> all MOQ'ers to read Rediscovery of Mind. I have in some instances changed
> MIND to Quality and that substitution is interesting.
>
> According to Searle the Mind is a function of the (biological) brain. The
> brain stores unconscious patterns that can be brought up to the conscious
> (intellectual) level. Some of our skills, like walking, are a part of the
> "Background", we never consciously think of them (Static patterns ?). The
> Background is learnt while we grow up some aspects of what later became
> Background might at a point have been Conscious but when we learn them
well
> enough they become a part of the (unconscious) background. So the
background
> is all social conventions (And much more) , it is what makes the world
> understandable and also what makes many of our statements understandable.
>
> So what is that in terms of intellectual and social?? First our intellect
> snaps something up, we learn. As beginners we might think about how we for
> example play tennis. When we get to a professional level most things are a
> part of that persons background (we never think about how, we just do). So
> intellectual level becomes social, we NEED a conscious, intentional mind
to
> form the background so intellectual comes BEFORE social. In fact WE CAN'T
> HAVE SOCIAL LEVEL WITHOUT HAVING A INTELLECTUAL LEVEL FIRST.
>
> Since this makes intellectual patterns a intrinsic property of all social
> patterns I have no problem with the MOQ notion that intellectual patterns
> are more important than social. BUT Biological develops into intellectual
> and that creates social. Can it be any other way ??
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Anders
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathan B. Marder [mailto:marder@agri.huji.ac.il]
> Sent: den 7 oktober 1999 18:29
> To: moq_discuss@moq.org
> Subject: MD WALKING IS A SOCIAL SKILL
>
>
> JONATHAN LEAVES THE INTELLECTUAL vs. SOCIAL DEBATE
> AND MUDDIES SOCIAL vs. BIOLOGICAL
>
> Hi all,
>
> We all know what the biological level includes, right?
> Well what about this:
> Last night the BBC World Service reported the case of a human boy found
> living among monkeys in Uganda - a real-life Tarzan. He was apparently
> abandoned as a toddler and only found again 2 years later.
> Not surprisingly, the child couldn't talk, but what really struck me was
> that the child couldn't WALK either. This wasn't a physical problem,
> since he quickly learned to walk after his rescue. It suggests to me
> that the SOCIAL level has something to do with even the very basic
> "biological" function of walking. and the whole distinction between
> social and biological is blurred.
>
> Comments?
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
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