At 9:20 AM -0500 12/15/99, Platt Holden wrote:
>JC:
>Even if zeal is not a guarantee of rectitude, lack of it while living in
>an immoral society is a form of immorality, eh?
>
>PLATT:
>Agreed. The question is, “What constitutes an immoral society? (snip)
>JC:
(snip) By MoQ definition, SOM Society is immoral. Intellect
>without value is about as immoral as you can get.
>
>PLATT:
>Oops, you lost me here. SOM society immoral? I don’t recall Pirsig ever
>saying or suggesting that idea. Can you point to a reference?
Hah. No. Ummm. What I should have said is that a society based upon
subject object metaphysics is amoral. SOM denies the very existence of
morals. That's about as immoral and insane as you can get, imho. I don't
know if Pirsig said that specifically. I just know it's true.
>Nor do I
>understand how intellect can be without value when Pirsig says the
>intellectual level, like all levels, is made up of patterns of value.
>Indeed, >for
>Pirsig “the world is composed of nothing but moral value.” Do you disagree
>with this basic premise of the MOQ?
Intellect can be without value if it chooses to be. Intellect is
inherently dynamic in that we get a choice of metaphysics around which to
arrange our intellectual baggage.
Remember the vision of Pure Reason without value? That's pure intellect
based upon subjects and objects and the merciless logical manipulations of
the latter by the former. Orwell's 1984. That is actually a viable
intellectual choice and one of many open to men. You won't have anything
that makes life "worth" living, but at least you'd have an existence free
from the burden of thought.
By choosing a different metaphysics we can see morality as part of
intellect and only then is it true that there are levels of patterns and
value in all levels.
But if we're stuck in SOM, we can't see anything of value.
I choose a different story. I agree that life without value is insane and
if SOM can't even see the good, then we should kick it out and find
something that can.
MoQ, where are you?
jc
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