From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Sun Nov 17 2002 - 20:34:26 GMT
Scott, Sam and y'all:
Scott said:
Just a couple of remarks. First, in comparing western and eastern
mysticism,
I don't think showing the similarities between Orpheus and Jesus is the
ticket. These similarities are similarities in myths, and that ground is
well-covered, as you say, by Campbell and others.
[David Buchanan]
Right. I didn't go East at all, except for the clap-trap quote, and failed
almost entirely to demonstrate how the hero's journey is a metaphor for the
mystical experience. I happen to know that the Japanese culture has a
version of the myth of Orpheus, but the truth is that I'm not very familiar
with Oriental mythology and my interest in Eastern mysticism stops at India,
which is strongly connected to the West.
Scott said:
What is at issue, I think, is whether, say Eckhart and Shankara and the
Buddha and the author of the Cloud of Unknowing, etc. etc., are "talking
about the same thing" or not. I'm pretty well convinced they are, so on the
one hand I'm sort of in disagreement with Sam that they are different
(though since Christians, until recently, necessarily have to include the
saving factor of Christ's life on earth, the formulations have to be
different.). On the other, I'm a bit on Sams's side about the question of
Eastern superiority in the "technology of consciousness". Superior, yes,
because more effort has gone into it, and because the effort is mainstream,
but there are a lot of methodical manuals in Christianity. Orthodox theology
calls itself "mystical theology", after all.
[David Buchanan]
I'm skeptical in spite of what Orthodoxy calls itself. China calls itself a
Republic, but that doesn't make it so.
I'm curious too. If there really is mysticism in today's churches, I'd sure
like to know about it. I'd consider that a very hopeful sign and part of me
would love to be mistaken. Please, fill me in Sam, Scott. As to whether the
world's mystics are all describing the same thing, its hard to imagine how
they could be describing different things. Each of the world's great
religions has an esoteric mystical core and this is where all of the
different religions essentially agree. The essential message is the same in
all these various traditions; thou art that. In this sense every religion
has a "mystical theology" at its core. It seems to me that the question is
not about theology or esoteric interpretaions, but wheather or not today's
churches function to induce the mystical experience and make it meaningful
for the the church members. If the "methodical manuals" Scott mentioned are
aimed at such a function I will be pleasantly surprized.
Scott said:
So, I think your criticism is valid for recent times, namely the last few
centuries (Sam might correct me on this -- I just am not aware of any major
theologians in recent centuries who were "heavily into mysticsim", so to
speak). More recently, though, there has been a fairly large movement toward
using contemplative prayer (meditation in other terms) among, at least,
Anglicans and Catholics, maybe others.
[David Buchanan]
Contemplative prayer? I guess it couldn't hurt, but its hardly the same as
an earth-shattering mystical experience. In mythology this powerful event is
depicted as death and dismemberment, which is a total dissolution of the
self. Here's a thought. The remarkable level of hostility toward the 60's is
in large part based on the fact that they defied our culture's suppression
of this experience. As much as anything else, the hippies were hated and
feared for their open advocacy of mind altering substances. This still
resonates today, which is why they were able to get so much mileage out of
Clinton's mouthful of pot smoke. Because he "didn't inhale", it was just a
mouthful. ;-) I mean its not just in the churches, the culture at large is
hostile to mysticism. According to common usage, "mysticism" is just
non-sense and mumbo-jumbo. Its something said in sarcastic tones and often
in conjuction with the rolling of eyes.
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