From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Sun Nov 24 2002 - 23:06:22 GMT
Rick and y'all:
PIRSIG 1
For purposes of MOQ precision, let's say the intellectual level is the same
as mind. It is the collection and manipulation of symbols, created in the
brain, that stand for patterns of experience.
PIRSIG 2
In the MOQ all organisms are objective. The exist in the material world. All
societies are subjective. They exist in the mental world. Again the
distinction is very sharp.
RICK
Quote #1 clearly states that "the intellectual level is the same as mind".
Yet, quote #2 states that "All societies... exist in the mental world."
Unless there is some meaningful difference between "mind" and "the mental
world" then these two quotes taken together would add up to saying that all
societies exist in the intellectual level. Yet, that obviously can't be
right given the very design of the static levels. The most frustrating part
of this is that in both of the quotes Pirsig claims he is acting in the
interest of precision (a sharp distinction).
Anybody care to try and reconcile these quotes?
DMB says:
Like Maggie, I think there is no real contradiction. I've already tackled
this issue, but I guess I could try again. I think you ought to check your
math, because the two quotes do not add up to what you say they do. The
mistake comes in assuming that only one or the other can be in the mind, but
Pirsig says that both are mental, both are subjective, both are part of the
mind. This is no problem. There is a huge difference between rocks and
organisms. They are at two different levels of evolution, yet they are both
objective and physical. No problem. Same with the social and intellectual
level. There are very important differences, but they are both in the mind.
The way you've added up these quotes is like saying that all rocks exist at
the biological level, which makes the fallacy quite clear, no?
Thanks.
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