Re: MD Pirsig, the MoQ, and SOM

From: Wim Nusselder (wim.nusselder@antenna.nl)
Date: Fri Nov 29 2002 - 07:51:29 GMT

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    Dear Platt and Sam,

    Platt, I also found your 12/11 11:44 -0500 posting on the spiritual aspects
    of the MoQ very interesting.

    You are right that I, when I answered Pirsig's questions
    ('Is reality ultimately reducible to a single underlying substance? If so,
    is it essentially spiritual or material?')
    didn't answer the second question, because I had answered the first question
    negatively.
    (My answer was: 'reality can be abstracted to Quality, but this is not
    "single" (it is split in DQ and sq at least), it doesn't "underlie" but "is"
    perception and it is not "substance"')

    The spiritual aspect of metaphysics, religion, art and anything else with
    long-lasting appeal is not (should not be?) their reference to an
    'underlying spiritual substance of reality', according to me. I agree that
    'The fundamental appeal of most [I would say 'all'] religions is precisely
    the promise of' a 'beyond', which in some religions is referred to with the
    metaphor 'life after death'. I referred to this 'beyond' in earlier postings
    on this list as 'Meaning'. See for instance my posting of 9/2 19:56 +0100 in
    my 'Is Society Making Progress?' discussion with (it seems) the late Roger.
    As I wrote 9/6/-1 20:54 +0200 to Matt K. (and repeated later):
    'The main competitor of a MOQ on the meta-level is not SOM but religion.'
    As I wrote several times already, art is another competitor (even if
    religion functions better in that role for me personally). In that sense
    'the "harmony" or "beauty" aspect of life' which you (often) refer to is
    also only one of the possible ways of referring to this 'beyond', one of the
    possible ways of giving/recognizing Meaning.

    Just as for Sam 'life after death' in the sense of 'everlasting life' has no
    reality for me. As Sam wrote 28/11 13:07 -0000:
    'I don't deny it, it just doesn't mean much to me.'
    'Life after death' in the sense of 'eternal life', as Sam described it, has
    more reality to me. It is a possible way of describing (also my) mystical
    experiences. I fully agree with Sam however that (striving for) mystical
    experience is (striving for) an epiphenomenon, it is only a side-effect of a
    Meaningful life.

    'Patterns' exist in their recognition as such. In that sense Pirsig's 'son's
    "larger pattern" survived and was
    reincarnated in the birth of his daughter, Nell': he recognized aspects of
    his son (or of his son's role in his life?!) in his daughter. Nell restored
    some Meaning to his life.

    With friendly greetings,

    Wim

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