RE: MD "linear causality"

From: Glenn Bradford (gmbbradford@netscape.net)
Date: Tue Dec 31 2002 - 04:26:07 GMT

  • Next message: john williams: "Re: MD re: quality decisions"

    ERIN:
    >Glenn dearest,
    >Let me repeat what I wrote before about acausal
    >relationships because I don't think you
    >have grasped it. I am not going to answer your
    >other questions because they are ignoring
    >the points of this post.
    >You are interpreting everything from a traditional causal perspective.
    >When a nonlinear causality is offered you try to stuff
    >it into a causal perspective.

    You're right. I do that. It's that "final vocabulary" thing. I'm
    blind to ideas not found in the dictionary. And I don't blame you
    for not answering my questions. Let me try to make amends by
    offering an atraditional perspective for achange. Let me take
    these quotes you've re-posted that I previously ignored. I fine
    to translate them into coherent English to prove to you that I've
    grasped the salient points. You grade me. You're a Psychology Major,
    so I trust you.

       Freud method was to study clusters of factors
       that are at the root of abnormal behavior.
       Jung thought the best way to describe developemnt
       of personality is an unfoldment of within.
       It is as though a purpose implicit in the nature of human organism
       is gradually emerging and maturing out of previous
       situations in which neither it nor its equivalent was
       contained. Observing this he saw the it is seriously
       misleading to reduce the creativity of the present
       moment to the psychic circumstances of the past.

    Freud's method can be dismissed in favor of Jung's.
    Jung viewed personality development as a flowering from within
    that depended less on life experience than an innate, teleological
    disposition of the person. He took stock in the beginner's mind.

       Jung not only analytical and causal, but also synthetic and prospective in
       recognition that the human mind is characterized by causes as well as
       by fines (aims)....Causality is only one principle and psychology
       essentially cnnot be exhausted by causal methods only"

    Jung saw causality as well as fines at work in the human mind.

       Teological pov is the conception of a final purpsose implicit
       in the seed of each organism with the life of the individual
       construed as the working out of that purpose.
       In the actuality of events, it is exceedingly to mark off
       where causality leaves off and teleology begins.
       Also the implicit purpose contain in an organism is not necessrily
       actualized and may be stunted or distorted.

    At the core of every person lies a purpose and the person spends
    his life trying to achieve it. Causality interferes with this
    purposeful activity but it's actually very [hard] to tell one from
    the other. If you let cause and effect rule your life and don't
    achieve your purpose then you are apt to become a retard.

       Jung terms "meaningful coincidence" - the coming
       together by apparent chance of factors that are not causally linked but
       that nevertheless show themselves to be meaningfully related is at the very
       heart of the process by which the individual life enfolds
       and becomes his "fate". Here teleology and contigency
       meet. They come together in framing the issue that is
       deepest and most difficult to which any study of man can address.
       Contigency he realized is not something that could be analyzed
       in a rational cause and effect. Even astrology for
       example loses whatever validity it might otherwise have
       when it is interpreted as a fixed system whose symbols
       have pretermined meanings.

    Seemingly chance events that have no causes but are meaningfully
    related are central to personality development and become the
    purpose for living. These events are really deep and really, really
    hard to figure out. You can't analyze it. This is fortunate because
    the lesson from astrology is that once you pin down the rules by
    which it's supposed to work, you find that it no longer does.

       In contrast Jung was impressed by I Ching.
       It is impossible to find the 'reason' behind the I Ching
       intellectually.
       The insights of the I Ching seem to involve a participation
       in the flow of events that manages somehow to reflect the chance factors of
       time and individuality. This leads to the inference that, if we are to
       undrstand the aspects of contigency that are expressed in the individual
       personality, we must first find a means of bringing our thought
       into harmony with the movements of life out of which contigency
       emerges. In this sense, Jungs development of
       the Synchroncity principle may be intrpreted as an effort to describe
       a way of thinking or better a way of experience, that can
       comprehend the peculiar pattern of movement foudn in nonrational and
       noncausal phenomena. A key lies in that contigency is inherently an
       irrational factor.
       Causality, Teleology, Synchronicity--
       with Synchronicity balancing and complementing the other
       two. "

    Jung liked I Ching because, unlike astrology, you can't pin
    it down in the first place so no one can ever know if it's bunk.
    It's important for a person to be in the flow of the I Ching because
    it somehow focuses the proper chance events together at the same
    time on a given person. You can get into the flow by thinking in a
    certain irrational way, and in a sense this is what the development
    of the Synchronicity principle is all about.

    How'd I do?
    Who is the author, by the way?
    Tsk, tsk, you're not referencing again, Erin.
    Glenn

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