From: johnny moral (johnnymoral@hotmail.com)
Date: Tue Aug 10 2004 - 00:49:47 BST
HI Scott,
Thanks for the questions.
I'd say the pattern of value that is the chicken exists non-materially, and
only when the pattern is experienced does it materialize. But while it
isn't materialized, it is still doing things that a pattern of a chicken
does, we still expect it to be sitting there when we go back to the coop,
hopefully with an egg. But it isn't doing them materially, unless we put a
video camera on it, then it will still sit there materially, because we
fully expect it to (or at least it will seem to have sat there, actually,
the image on the video tape is created when we watch it).
Mystical experiences are also patterns of value that converge in our
consciousness.
A pattern of value exists in Moarlity, which is also Reality, so it is just
like existence in SOM, except that while things are not being experienced,
they don't actually exist, only the pattern does, the expectation that it
will exist and everything will make sense.
Johnny
>From: "Scott Roberts" <jse885@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>Subject: Re: [Spam] Re: MD the metaphysics of free enterprise
>Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 12:35:13 -0600
>
>Johnny,
>
>You may have addressed this in the past, so apologies if so.
>
>Would you consider the chicken as existing when it lays an egg (and no
>human is looking) on the grounds that it is experiencing? Such experience
>does not need to be subject/object -- or does it, that is, do you consider
>experience to only be in subject/object form? (If so, what do you consider
>mystical experience, claimed to not be in subject/object form?)
>
>I suppose I should first ask if you see a difference between "exist" and
>"exist materially", and if so, what would you consider non-material
>existence.
>
>Just want to clarify. I think I am in partial agreement with what you say,
>but maybe not.
>
>- Scott
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: johnny moral <johnnymoral@hotmail.com>
> > To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
> > Date: 8/9/2004 1:21:44 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Spam] Re: MD the metaphysics of free enterprise
> >
> > "Once I believe it's water, I'm glad what goes down my throat isn't just
>a
> > belief. Beliefs, expectations, observations, or words won't quench my
> > thirst, or feed the starving masses."
> >
> > Faith in Jesus's fishes and loaves fed the starving masses. That sort
>of
> > faith isn't something that happens everyday though, most people aren't
> > beleved to be messiahs capable of miracles. Regarding your thirst, do
> > patterns of value quench it? If so, what is it you believe a pattern of
> > value to be? I didn't realize they were water-based.
> >
> > "Anyway, nobody believes chickens lay eggs only when someone is
>looking."
> >
> > That's the point. That's why they seem to have laid eggs when no one
>was
> > looking. In fact (no, not in fact, but philosophically speaking), while
>no
> > one was looking, the chickens didn't even exist materially. To exist,
> > something has to be experienced, the experience (quality) creates the
> > observer and the observed. Their existence during the time between
> > experiences is filled in by our beliefs, which are also dictated to us
>by
> > quality and experience. The primary belief we have is SOM, that
>chickens
> > really exist when we aren't looking.
> >
> > Johnny
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's
>FREE!
> > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
> >
> >
> >
> > MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
> > Mail Archives:
> > Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
> > Nov '02 Onward -
>http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
> > MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
> >
> > To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
> > http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
>
>
>
>
>MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
>Mail Archives:
>Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
>Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
>MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
>
>To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
>http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
>
_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archives:
Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Tue Aug 10 2004 - 00:52:48 BST