From: Ilya Korobkov (korobkov_ilya@mail.ru)
Date: Wed Aug 18 2004 - 11:52:00 BST
Hi Mark,
I wrote in last letter:
> I would put things the other way now. Instead of placing a person
> somewhere on the STATICNESS-DYNAMICNESS scale, I would rather
> characterize him now as being more or less OPEN TO DYNAMIC QUALITY.
> (It is a way of description Wim Nusselder had suggested.)
Mark answered:
Vac> Hi Ilya, I feel Wim has confused you.
I don't see why do you think so, Mark. In fact, I rejected Wim's
way of description at first. It just did't make any more sense than my,
it seemed to me. But some time since I came to conceptualizing
psychological reality in this same terms. Try to see why I value it.
Mark:
Vac> You see, if one accepts
Vac> what coherence is trying to say, that coherence is, 'freedom from static
Vac> patterns, within static patterns' then a coherent person IS more open to DQ in a
Vac> healthy sense. An Incoherent person is open to DQ but the result is chaotic and
Vac> pathological. Does this make any sense?
I'm not sure if I understand you rightly. Let me put down what I may see
in this passage of yours and you will correct me where I am wrong, Ok?
1) Coherence is freedom from static patterns within static patterns.
- I think this is certainly true. But I wouldn't use this metaphorical
description as the definition of coherence. It may be very confusing.
2) Coherent person is more healthy (in any sense) than incoherent.
- Definitely true.
Did i miss something, Mark?
I wrote in last letter:
> Being open
> to DQ means experiencing that your static patterns (or, more corretly,
> "static patterns you are composed of") do not adequately reflect DQ.
> Consequences of being open to DQ depend on how strongly you cling to
> your static patterns. If you cling to them deadly strong it produces
> very high DYNAMIC PRESSURE which can make your life insufferable.
> But you have very strong, rigid "self", ego.
> If, on the contrary, you do not cling to static patterns at all, you
> experience no dynamic pressure at all - you just "swim with the
> current". BUT YOU ARE NOBODY, you have no self! "Nobody home", as Lila
> said.
Mark answered:
Vac> Mark 17-8-04: Well, now, can you see how coherence may be brought to bare at
Vac> this point? Coherence is a healthy openness to DQ, Incoherence is a
Vac> pathological openness to DQ.
Mark, in your last letter you emphasized that "Coherence - Incoherence are
relationships between static patterns". Why do you bring DQ in the
definition of coherence now? I don't see your point.
Vac> Pirsig suggests towards to end of Lila that what Lila needs
Vac> is ritual in her life - static patterns within which to find protecting
Vac> structure for Dynamic pressure?
Vac> However, the Buddha abandoned any illusion of ego but remained coherent. The
Vac> phrase "swim with the current" is what coherence is saying, but in strict MOQ
Vac> terms.
Yes. I just don't see how what you are saying contradict with what I wrote
in the last letter? Remember, Mark, I didn't mention coherence in it at all.
Not because I wanted to leave this concept, but just because I was saying
about something else. About openness to DQ and clinging to to static
patterns that compose you as an individual (either coherent or not,
either having the illusion of ego or not - it is just not relevant).
Buddha abandoned the illusion of ego and remained coherent all right.
It is not interesting to me now. What IS interesting, is did he cling
to static patterns that composed him? If he did't cling to them at
all, can we call him personality? Had he any stable set of ideas,
likes and dislikes, attachments that make a man unique personality?
I think it's clinging to your static patterns that prevents you from
"swimming with the current" and that makes you personality. Clinging to
static patterns results in DINAMIC PRESSURE, that can make your life
unbearable if you cling to static patterns deadly strong and you are
very open to DQ. Incoherence can, of course, worsen your predicament
immeasurably. But coherence itself doesn't mean you will not experience
dynamic pressure. That's my point.
Thank you for your help, Mark!
Best regards,
Ilya
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