From: Charles Roghair (ctr@pacificpartssales.com)
Date: Mon Aug 23 2004 - 07:06:04 BST
Initially, I am an atheist.
Secondly, I define atheism as having “no belief in any god or god(s).”
Having ruminated on this P.O.E. thread for the past 48 hours or so, not
in an effort to strengthen my position, but trying to pinpoint the
moment I became so agitated, I’d like to just say this:
I was angry. My sleep pattern was disrupted. Why was I so affected?
If I’m not mistaken, folks in my camp are relieved the burden of proof.
After all, I’m defending the non-existence of a being for whom there
is arguably no evidence (I understand that the P.O.E. is merely a
component of a vast and convoluted “existence of God” debate, but the
P.O.E. thread evolved into more than just P.O.E., an evolution I did as
much if not more than anyone here to encourage, I know).
Boiled down and the way I understand things:
Evil exists, which should be impossible if God exists, because:
1.If God is unaware of Evil in the world, he is not omniscient.
2.If God is aware of Evil, but can do nothing to prevent it, he is not
omnipotent.
3.If God is aware of Evil, is able to prevent it and chooses not to, he
is not
omni-benevolent.
Where’s the flaw? After all, is this not the God of
Judeo-Christianity? Is this not the God of Vatican II? Is this not
America’s God?
This is the God I immediately assume, whenever the P.O.E. is a part of
the discussion; part of the problem I realize.
According to Scott, there’s such a thing as a “modern, intellectual
religion” going on out there of which my knowledge is lacking. Is it
possible that “modern intellectual religion” does not necessitate
“theism”? Any books or websites you care to recommend on “modern
intellectual religion,” Scott? I’d appreciate it.
Thanks to subsequent missives from David, I now know your God may not
necessarily be omnipotent or unsolvable (as opposed to the Biblical God
who is, to my understanding, beyond human comprehension).
David, I would ask you to define God, but I suppose that’s asking too
much, even for someone with two unbroken arms. I wish you a full,
speedy and uneventful recovery.
Also, mel, I agree with you that the argument’s base was flawed;
Furthermore, I agreed with you when you first proposed that the
argument’s base was flawed. The flaw, in my mind, was that no one ever
defined God, which is actually beside the point.
As far as the dance analogy goes, mel, maybe you were tangoing, but I
was twisted and over-sensitive. I’ll avoid such pitfalls in the
future. Please accept my apology and don’t stop the wit.
The point is the answer to the following question:
Why is this disrupting my sleep?
Answer:
I took Pirsig for an atheist. I took the MoQ to be atheistic. I was
disappointed to see the P.O.E. appear as a title.
Having attended Catholic School from grade one through grade 12 and
looking back on the experience from here, I am struck by the clear
emphasis that was placed on selling Faith as opposed to classic
education–science, history, literature, mathematics and writing. The
schools I attended, Sts. Simon & Jude in Huntington Beach, CA from
first through eighth grade and then Mater Dei High school in Santa Ana,
CA from 1984 through graduation in 1988, amount to little more than
long-term, youth brainwashing agents for Catholicism.
I realized early on, probably in 1980 that so much nonsensical,
contradictory dogma was too much for me to swallow on Faith. It made
things difficult. Things have been difficult ever since.
Also, as an aside note, each institution was a way station for more
than one “alleged” child-molester during the ‘80’s. All of which have
been passed along, by respective parish Bishops, to different vocations
or to other parishes in different unsuspecting locals around the world.
None of which have been prosecuted to my knowledge. Reading about
these guys, my former teachers and administrators, in the local news
fairly regularly hasn’t done wonders for my opinion of their
institution.
I’ve come to terms with societal God being in my face and having an
evangelist in the White House, though familial “tsk, tsk”-ing still
gets me down. I’m unwilling to break ties with those who forced God
on me from the get-go, but I’ve considered it.
A search for something better led me here. I love being here. I love
being here and I realized that God isn’t possible here at the same time
as the existence of whatever it is that’s here that I find so
compelling.
A while back, I would have called it “truth,” then maybe “logic.” But
truth and logic aren’t what they once were.
I don’t know what to call it; it’s that indefinable nexus.
To call it “God,” I think, does “it,” a disservice, but I know that’s
just me.
To those of you who prefer to call “it” God, whom I may have offended
in recent posts, I sincerely apologize. I will make every effort to
conduct myself in a more civil manner in future missives.
Perhaps implement a cooling-off period between typing and sending, like
I'm buying a hand-gun.
Best regards,
Chuck
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archives:
Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Mon Aug 23 2004 - 07:06:38 BST