Re: MD MOQ and Logic/Science

From: Mark Steven Heyman (markheyman@infoproconsulting.com)
Date: Tue Aug 24 2004 - 03:45:01 BST

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    Hi Scott, and all,

    Thanks for presenting the "other" side in a thoughtful manner. FWIW,
    I'm neither atheist, theist, or agnostic. If anything, hyper-
    agnostic, I guess. So far, I'm too dumb to understand what it is I'm
    supposed to believe in, or not believe in. One of the reasons I
    started the POE thread was to get people talking about what they mean
    by "God."

    Some comments below, but no real disagreement.

    On 23 Aug 2004 at 0:16, Scott Roberts wrote:
    The falsifiability criterion is, of course, only applicable to
    religion for those who think religion is supposed to make sense the
    same way science does.

    msh:
    Agreed. As I stated earlier, religious people begin to have problems
    only when they try to convince others that there is some rational
    and/or scientific foundation for their beliefs. The "science" of
    Creationism, for example.

    scott said:
    For example, there is a web site that supposedly tests one logic, and
    accuses you of being illogical if you don't believe in the Loch Ness
    Monster, but do believe in God. You are being illogical, they say,
    because there is no physical evidence for either.

    msh says:
    Yes. Such bonehead web sites give both science and logic a bad name.
    The great thing about the web is that anyone can publish to it; and
    the worst thing about the web is that anyone can publish to it. I
    was peripherally involved in the development of some of the first
    software which allowed people to generate HTML pages by clicking,
    dragging, dropping, rather than coding. To me, it seemed like we
    were handing out driver's licenses without road test requirements.

    scott said:
    It is very easy to see the faults in religion as practiced, but one
    should bear in mind that most all those who call themselves Christian
    are idolators or heretics of some kind or other. The doctrine of the
    Trinity, for example, pretty much boils down to "God is a triunity,
    and if you think you understand it, you have fallen into some heresy
    or other." Definitely not science, but a powerful koan.

    msh says:
    I like this very much.

    scott said:
    Of course, one can just forget about the Trinity, but I have found
    the same sort of mystery in human consciousness. The main answers to
    the mystery (idealism and materialism) are understandable, and wrong,
    since they attempt to solve the mystery by redefining one half or the
    other of consciousness phenomena out of existence.

    msh says:
    Maybe a slight disagreement here. It seems to me that people often
    create mysteries in order to solve them. The mystery of the
    "purpose" of life is the prime example. It seems to me that humans
    see (or, more accurately, create) purpose in their own lives and
    therefore can't believe that life itself is without purpose. They
    solve the "mystery" by positing the existence of God, not seeing that
    all they are doing is replacing one mystery with another.

    scott said:
    Anyway, I find religious thinking to be fascinating, because it's
    task is to think about the unthinkable.

    msh says:
    Yep. That's some task, all right. ;-)

    Thanks again for your comments.

    Best,
    Mark Steven Heyman (msh)

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