From: ml (mbtlehn@ix.netcom.com)
Date: Thu Sep 02 2004 - 00:03:01 BST
From an SOM perspective it seems more
like TWISTER. ;-)
----- Original Message -----
From: David Morey
To: moq_discuss@moq.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 1:31 PM
Subject: Re: MD hierarchy of static patterns - coherence
hey you take the ladder up to the intellectual level
and then the snake drags you back down to biology
so its the snakes and ladders of the hierarchy of values
DM
----- Original Message -----
From: Valuemetaphysics@aol.com
To: moq_discuss@moq.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: MD hierarchy of static patterns - coherence
Hi Mark, hello all.
I want to ask your opinion what is the best way to describe the
changes that occur in the hierarchy of static patterns that compose
a man.
Mark 31-8-04: Hi Ilya, a good topic for enquiry. Just one thing: I am about to have some work done on my computer. If all goes well there will be no interruption. If things don't go well i may be off-line for a day or two? :-O (Fingers crossed!)
I'll try to explain what I mean. A man is composed of four
levels of static patterns, and each pattern responds to DQ
independently.
Mark 31-8-04: Yes.
At different times of his life a man responds to DQ
predominantly on one level or on the other. For example, a toddler
responds to DQ predominantly on biological level, teenager - on social
level, an adult - on intellectual level. And even fully grown-up man
may respond to DQ predominantly on biological level when he is devoid
of air, food, water or sex for a long enough time. Or predominantly
on social level, when he is homeless and insecure.
Mark 31-8-04: Yes, indeed. Good examples.
The hierarchy of dominance of static patterns at any given time
describes very well person's subjective reality: what "he" needs, what
"he" values. But more or less often changes in this hierarchy occur.
"We" begin to value other things, not the things we had valued before.
When we are hungry we value most food. But when we satisfy hunger we
begin to value most good company, or good book. We do not value food
any more.
Mark 31-8-04: Yes. Pirsig emphasises that a 'subject' is predominantly the social and intellectual levels; Anthony McWatt suggests that a 'subject' is composed of all level patterns. I tend to agree with Anthony McWatt, and so do you by the looks of it. Looking good.
May we coin a term to describe this phenomenon? - I mean, the
phenomenon of changes in the hierarchy of static patterns?
Mark 31-8-04: I think we could do with such a term. Have you any suggestions Ilya? What ever the term is, it should convey day to day, hour by hour fluctuations.
And another question. Is it correct to say that in coherent state
all levels of static patterns that compose a man value one object?
(They certainly value different ASPECTS of this object, but anyway.)
Take love, fore example. When it is true love, we value one object on
biological, social and intellectual levels simultaneously, don't we?
Mark 31-8-04: Yes.
And because all levels of patterns value one object no conflicts
between them arise. All patterns "work in parallel" and are not aware
of each other. Isn't it what you call coherence, Mark?
Friendly yours,
Ilya
Mark 31-8-04: I agree. But i am rather extreme in my MOQ language Ilya. I dispense with Subjects and Objects altogether. Pirsig argues that we don't have to drop subjects and objects, as long as we remember what levels dominate both realms. I would suggest that we can, if we wish, and if we are among like minded MOQ people, talk about static patterns exclusively.
So, a subject is replaced by sq patterns, and the object is replaced by sq patterns. These different 'bunches' of sq patterns either harmonise or don't harmonise. If they harmonise very very well, they are coherent.
All the best,
Mark
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