From: Richard Loggins (brloggins@yahoo.com)
Date: Wed Sep 08 2004 - 00:52:27 BST
Many thanks for clarifying this for me, Anthony. And
as usual, Mark's (Marx?) response, which I missed the
first time around, was terrifically illuminating. I
suppose there is a deep connection between music and
mathematics.
Wouldn't it be nice if Poincare's elegant
constructions could somehow be translated into music,
so we could appreciate his elegance sonicaly, without
having to think about it. Then my students might start
enjoying math more and I might teach it with more
enthusiasm.
Rich
--- ant.mcwatt@ntlworld.com wrote:
> > From: Richard Loggins <brloggins@yahoo.com>
> > Date: 2004/09/06 Mon PM 06:46:49 GMT
> >
> > Hi Anthony,
> >
> > Great answers from both you and Robert Pirsig.
>
> Many thanks, Rich – you always wonder how answers
> are coming across at a viva.
>
> > Maybe
> > they should give Mr. Pirsig an honorary degree for
> > doing such a great job :)
>
> Why not even a professorship (especially as
> newcomers such as Ham Priday are presuming this
> anyway!)
>
> >I have a couple of
> > confusions though about the Schoenberg Concert
> > question and answer. If Pirsig means that musical
> > harmony is not the same as MOQ harmony, does this
> mean
> > the Schoenberg Concert cannot fit into this
> paradigm,
>
> Yes, but I didn’t realise this at the time of the
> viva.
>
> > or is the question not really answered? Also, do
> you
> > agree that mathematical elegance cannot be defined
> by
> > any static pattern?
>
> Probably, but see my answer below.
>
> >Can we not give reasons why some
> > mathematics is more elegant than others?
>
> Yes, in the same way we can give reasons for why
> some paintings are more sublime than others.
>
> Rich, you might also be interested in Marx Maxwell’s
> answer to this particular viva question:
>
> 4.a. How does an increase of complexity lead to
> harmony?
>
> b. How can a Schoenberg Concert which is purposively
> disharmonic fit into this paradigm?
>
> Hi Anthony,
>
> The above question 'b' is misleading. Schoenberg
> developed atonal music which does not have a key
> centre - you don't need a new or different piano to
> play this music, you just abandon the conventional
> Western Art music tradition regarding harmonic
> rules. This does not make atonal music 'purposively
> disharmonic' as far as I am aware. Atonal music
> expands the repertoire of the composer into new and
> unexplored areas of harmonic potential. The results
> have been described as incredibly powerful and
> beautiful.
>
> I was thinking of writing to my music professor for
> a few words on this matter, but I am not sure if he
> will be in the dept. I feel sure he would be most
> willing to shine a light onto this matter.
>
> By the way, early experiments with atonality
> influenced Gustav Holst' Planet suite, and Holst was
> a great friend and music companion of Vaughn
> Williams. These two can sound very much alike in
> style. The influence I have in mind regarding Holst
> and Atonality is Stravinsky's The right of spring.
>
> Also, the issue of expanding conventional approaches
> to Western art music harmonic principles (b) into
> more complex areas (a) actually confirms that an
> increase in choice leads to greater harmony. (Modern
> jazz, especially Thelonious Monk may be a good
> example of this?)
>
> Will be back to you...
>
> All the best,
>
> Mark
>
>
> -------end--------
>
>
>
>
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