From: Scott Roberts (jse885@earthlink.net)
Date: Tue Oct 05 2004 - 07:29:30 BST
DMB,
> Scott said to David M:
> Notice that you start with one question (how do we describe awareness) but
> then you drop that question entirely when you get into cataloguing
> patterns. Cataloging patterns is a good thing to do, but it cannot help in
> answering the original question. ...My answer is that one cannot describe
> awareness, no more than one can describe Quality. What one can do is point
> out general forms in which awareness and value occurs....
>
> dmb says:
> I know this is a different thread, but these comments are part of the "bit
> of reasoning" debate. If I see what you're doing here, it seems you've
> isolated "awareness" in a way that Pirsig doesn't intend. The MOQ says
that
> the ultimate reality is immediate experience. The whole thing begins with
> and proceeds from awareness. Awareness is the most fundamental thing of
all.
> All patterns of value are based on it, the world is built of it and there
is
> nothing else. Its all about levels and degrees of consciousness.
I thought I was saying that awareness is fundamental (as is value), that it
is indescribable. I don't understand your objection. Is it because I am
also saying that one doesn't have awareness without forms? But that is no
more than saying that one doesn't have DQ without SQ, or, form is not other
than emptiness, emptiness is not other than form, and which is what you
said here (from another post), paraphrasing Sri Raman Maharshi:
> Static patterns are an illusion;
> Dynamic Quality alone is real;
> Dynamic Quality is the patterns.
(This isn't a bad example of the logic of contradictory identity, by the
way.)
- Scott
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