Re: MD On Faith

From: Joseph Maurer (jhmau@sbcglobal.net)
Date: Wed Oct 06 2004 - 19:49:38 BST

  • Next message: Scott Roberts: "Re: MD A bit of reasoning"

    On 5 October 2004 - 3:58:38 BST Chuck writes on faith:

    <snip>

    [Chuck] Which leads me to my final point...

    Faith is for Science. Faith is for people. Have faith in your spouse
    or your best friend or your family or booze or porn, hopefully it is
    rational faith; have faith in art or philosophy or literature or junk
    food or television or The Fighting Irish...

    Faith doesn't enter the equation, where "God" is concerned. I am God;
    the apriori me, I mean, that guy, him, me, I, am God. Faith is moot.
    The self is it, after all.

    REALITY!

    Hi Chuck and all,

    I am a Roman Catholic and I sing in choir every Sunday. I find nothing in my
    understanding of the MOQ that disturbs my peace of mind. My approach to the
    moral levels of the MOQ is through a mystical connection to DQ. I suppose in
    some way I view faith as a mystical connection to a DQ of religion. I do not
    know that this is a bad thing.

    If the evolution of the moral levels is incomprehensible to SQ, I find no
    irrationality in moving to a mystic acceptance of DQ for a further
    explanation. I was taught that there are seven centers of gravity in any
    action. Aquinas identified them as seven capital sins. In a mystical
    apprehension of Quality there are four levels inorganic, organic, social and
    intellect. Four and seven are not equal yet I find a coincidence.

    [Scott] 01-10-04 9:17 AM The MOQ says that I am a set of inorganic,
    biological, social, and intellectual SQ, capable of responding to DQ. I
    disagree with this definition, preferring to think of myself as a locus of
    DQ/SQ interaction.
    In my view, the MOQ definition is inadequate to the mystery of the self, in
    particular, it seems to me overly dualistic, that there is me here, and DQ
    coming from other than me. Also, I think it denies creativity, and the
    ability to make choices, on the part of the self.

    [Scott] But since I consider the self to be an irreducible mystery, one
    should not
    think my definition solves any of your questions. "DQ/SQ interaction" is
    just another name for the mystery. My complaint with the MOQ definition is
    that in "solving" the mystery, it reintroduces dualism, if not theism.

    [Chuck] 06-10-04 10:54 AM I'm dealing with reality. I'm not doubting your
    personal Catholicism is different, Scott, but until the Church takes a new
    official position that is
    the reality.

    [Joe] Pirsig tried to deal with the reality of SOM. Not a bad thing to do! I
    am not an apologist for Catholicism. I have a lot to learn.

    [Joe] One of the seven sins was Sloth. The positive of Sloth is Trust. I
    trust the sun will rise tomorrow, I am virtuous. I accept the intellectual
    level is higher than the social level. I am virtuous. I have no way to
    discuss with others the DQ of these levels. For myself I use a mystical
    order-gravity, purpose, existence, unfinished s/o. Maybe I am talking to
    myself, but when I sing I have fun.

    Joe

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