Re: MD A bit of reasoning

From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Fri Oct 08 2004 - 21:13:24 BST

  • Next message: Ian Glendinning: "Re: MD On Faith"

    yes and no.

    Without all the cognitive and evaluative back up
    there is no wow, but also no wow if there is no sun
    sitting out there on the horizon too. Only when the sun
    calls out to us are we able to enjoy those deep dark
    universal archetypes. Archetypes that recall every set
    of eyes that have ever seen an Earth sunset.
    And then maybe it is a sublime sunset. Where, following
    Burke & Kant, the sun is too much, too empirically powerful,
    and cannot be grasped by our previous absorption of experience,
    the something new can come from within and without.

    DM
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Scott Roberts" <jse885@earthlink.net>
    To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 6:19 AM
    Subject: RE: MD A bit of reasoning

    > Chuck, Mel,
    >
    > [Chuck:] Is the word "Quality" truly insufficient when relating to the
    > sunset? Isn't
    > > the "Wow Moment" an example of dynamic quality or dynamic good and your
    > > appreciation of the sunset every moment after that initial "Wow Moment"
    > > simply good static quality?
    >
    > [Scott:] That's the MOQ view. My point is that there is no beauty in a
    > sunset without appreciation of the beauty, or without a system of sunsets
    > within which the particular beauty of that sunset stands out. So just
    > saying "there is Quality" is insufficient.
    >
    > >
    > > Isn't "Quality" buttressed with "Intellect" just "static quality?"
    >
    > I prefer to think of there being Dynamic Intellect and Static Intellect,
    > which are just other names for DQ and SQ. (And I need to be clear that
    this
    > is not my interpretation of the MOQ, but a difference view than what the
    > MOQ holds.)
    >
    > >
    > > Isn't "what comes before..." simply apriori? That's the "wow moment"
    > right?
    > > The cusp of reality? Being in the here and now? Again, that's the
    > Dynamic
    > > Quality.
    >
    > Is there a "what comes before" that is somehow totally simple, just pure
    > DQ? I say no. Without the triad there is no value. However, where I agree
    > with the MOQ is that without the value there is no triad. So where the MOQ
    > says the value is prior to the triad, I say that each requires the other,
    > so one cannot say that one is prior to the other. What Zen says depends on
    > who you talk to.
    >
    > > Sorry to butt-in.
    >
    > No problem,
    >
    > - Scott
    >
    >
    >
    > > [Scott prev:]> > Yes. The trouble is that the word 'Quality' is
    > insufficient
    > > unless it is
    > > > > buttressed with a word like 'Intellect', where Peirce's semiotic
    > > > > triads come more obviously into play. There is no value unless there
    > > > > are particulars AND universals AND interpretants, where each one
    > > > > exists only
    > > > in
    > > > > relation to the other two. If you've got relationships or forms, and
    > > > you've
    > > > > got value, then you've got intellect. But see below about the word
    > > > > 'intellect'.
    > > >
    > > > mel:
    > > > This is not about Peirce or his conceptions.
    > > > It is about what comes before...
    > >
    > > [Scott:] If you are referring to so-called immediate/pure experience, it
    > is
    > > about that. If I say "Wow! That sunset is beautiful", while it is true
    > that
    > > the beauty occurred at the "wow" moment, and I am only thinking of that
    > > beauty in the "That sunset is beautiful" moment, that doesn't mean there
    > was
    > > no Peircean triad in the "wow" moment. There was. There had to be me and
    > the
    > > sunset, and the general system of colors, shapes, and so forth, for that
    > > "wow" moment to occur. If any one were missing, there would be no value.
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    >
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