RE: MD On Faith

From: Chuck Roghair (ctr@pacificpartssales.com)
Date: Mon Nov 01 2004 - 21:12:56 GMT

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    David:

    I can get behind that; it rings of the Dynamic!

    Here's the static flip-side:

    http://www.ericblumrich.com/faith.html

    Best regards,

    Chuck

    -----Original Message-----
    From: owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk [mailto:owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk]
    On Behalf Of David Morey
    Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 11:16 AM
    To: moq_discuss@moq.org
    Subject: Re: MD On Faith

    Hi

    In case anyone is interested, this religious group
    tries to examine religion on the intellectual
    basis that it is a human cultural phenomenon:

    http://www.sofn.org.uk/

    regards
    David M

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Scott Roberts" <jse885@earthlink.net>
    To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 4:12 PM
    Subject: RE: MD On Faith

    > Marsha,
    >
    >> At 10:54 PM 10/31/2004 -0700, you wrote:
    >> >But since I am not a theist, have no faith,
    >> >take no part in religious ritual, why did you conclude that I am
    > hypnotized?
    >>
    >> Scott, I'm confused. The above does not sound honest. Or are you one of
    >> those debaters who take a side for the challenge of it without personal
    >> investment in either side of the debate.
    >
    > Suppose I said that Buddhism is bad because millions spend their
    > hard-earned money on giving offers to priests, to spin prayer wheels,
    > etc.,
    > or because millions go around chanting "namu amida butsu" because they
    > have
    > been told that doing so will lead them to be reborn in the Pure Land. Or
    > because many Zen monks use cribs to answer koans, and are basically
    > serving
    > time in a monastery before they graduate so they can go out and perform
    > weddings and so forth (and get paid doing so). All of this is true (for
    > the
    > latter, see Janwillem van der Wetterings "An Empty Mirror" -- he is by no
    > means anti-Zen, just noticed this activity when he spent time in a
    > Japanese
    > Zen monastery). Well, I would hope you would respond by saying that, yes,
    > this is all true, but there is another, philosophical side to Buddhism,
    > which is good.
    >
    > That is what I am trying to say about Christianity. In this culture we are
    > much more aware of the bad side of it, since we are more exposed to it. We
    > (most of us) grew up with the bad side ("Be good or God will punish you",
    > and that sort of thing). So when we reached the age of beginning to reason
    > (adolescence) many of us turned it all off. But there is a good side to
    > it,
    > and it is not hard to find it in your local library. Theologians are aware
    > of all the criticisms that people such as you or Chuck or DMB have
    > levelled
    > at theism and faith, and have answers to them -- and are aware that many
    > of
    > those criticisms were not unjustified. Christianity is changing in
    > response
    > to some of them. In this respect, I much recommend Peter Berger's book
    > that
    > I quoted from: The Heretical Imperative.
    >
    > For all that, I am neither a Christian nor a Buddhist. In my view, an
    > intellectual religion without faith or ritual is possible, and that is
    > what
    > I am exploring (mostly in ways tangential to the MOQ, so I haven't talked
    > about them much, though I did get into it somewhat in the "A bit of
    > reasoning" thread). I could be wrong on this, but who knows. Anyway, I
    > have
    > found great value in Christian thinking (as well as in other religions),
    > so
    > I am arguing that one shouldn't just close one's mind to it. Or if one
    > does
    > choose to close one's mind to it (there are, after all, only so many hours
    > in a day), one should not then think one is justified in attacking it.
    >
    > - Scott
    >
    >
    >
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