From: Steve Peterson (peterson.steve@verizon.net)
Date: Tue Nov 02 2004 - 22:23:06 GMT
Hi Platt,
> Near death experiences come immediately to mind of beliefs supported by
> revelation.
But what beliefs do these experiences support? Belief in an afterlife
I presume. I'm really trying to get to what sorts of intellectual
statements can be said to be supported by the sort of spiritual faith
that we want to talk about.
> Those who meditate report experiences of being fully joined
> with Spirit.
Good example.
> Of course, there are many accounts of prayers being answered,
> confirming one's belief in a God who cares.
Do you think that any of these sorts of experiences can be politically
relevant? Like John Kerry saying that his opposition to abortion is
based on his religious faith. Such statements to me seem to be backed
by authority of the Church and belief in the Bible rather than
meditation, divine revelation, prayer, etc.
I guess I would say that ascribing to the belief statement "life is
sacred" (since it could be part of a direct experience of union with
Spirit) is a matter of faith, while "abortion should be made illegal"
is not.
I suggest that when people support political views as a matter of faith
that they are talking about beliefs that are supported by faith as
religious experience.
>> I was defending Pirsig's statement that faith is concerned with
>> believing falsehoods, and I still think that the word is often used in
>> exactly that way. I don't think I am over-generalizing when I say
>> that
>> beliefs supported by "revelation, meditation, and contemplation of
>> beauty
>> are generally [not] what people are talking about anyway when they
>> talk
>> about having faith." I did say generally, not always.
>
> I think many people use faith as a pejorative term based on a bias
> against
> religion. Pirsig's definition suggests as much.
true, as in the expression "blind faith."
>>
>> I think faith applies only to those axioms that concern value,
>> meaning, and
>> purpose--how one lives his life and interpret events, not just any
>> observation or statement or fact.
>
> To clarify our use of the term perhaps we should use "religious faith"
> when we're talking about its spiritual connotations and "intellectual
> faith" (as Pirsig does in the passage above) when referring to
> unprovable
> intellectual premises, such as the postmodern faith that truth doesn't
> exist.
>
Sound good to me.
Regards,
Steve
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