From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Sun Nov 07 2004 - 02:57:32 GMT
Arlo and all MOQers:
Arlo said:
What Platt misses, and what has been repeatedly argued, is that this was
not a victory of "social over biological", it was a victory of "social over
intellectual". Even if one accepts the skewed belief that the only thing
the "hippies of the 60's" fought for was sexual promiscuity, todays'
liberals are the ones who brought civil equality, women's rights, fair
wages for labor, workers' compensation, and the rights of individuals...
dmb says:
I think Arlo is reading it right. Ten of eleven states passed a ban on gay
marriage. The Republicans in Congress proposed a constitutional amendment to
do the same during this campaign season and mail was sent out to voters
warning them that liberals were going to ban the bible and allow gay
marriage. The conservatives see it as a triumph of morals over vice, but
from an intellecual perspective, it is a denial of equal protection under
the law, a denial of the rights of a certain class of citizens and as such
is illegal and immoral. From that perspective its a case of traditional
values in conflict with intellectual values. The conservatives THINK they
are putting "morals" over "sin", but they're actually putting religious
beliefs over individual rights.
Its interesting that the kind of vice, or social pathology if you prefer,
that the right is most concerned with also happens to be the kind of social
pathology that most affects conservatives. Haven't you ever noticed how its
the self-righteous moralizers who end up being exposed for some such vice?
Bill Bennett and gambling, Jim Baker and sex, Bill O'Reily and sex, Rush
Limbaugh and drugs. Its is real pattern in the larger society, not just
anecdotal evidence from celebrities. It only makes sense. Why would such
moral issues be of concern if they weren't grappeling with already. That's
what makes them resonate with such urgency for some and why it seems so
real. And I suppose that an intellectually oriented person has more or less
learned to manage such issues. Let's call it self possession, one who is not
ruled by the body's appitites or desires.
But its more than that. Not only are there a whole host of similarly
confused beliefs on the part of the "morals" crowd, it also goes hand in
hand with othe social level attitudes about the world. In the larger
picture, the present conservative ideology also includes a kind of
belligerant nationalism, an intolerance of dissent, a penchant for secrecy,
a unilateral militarism that is contemptuous of international law and
international agreements and some other elements that scare the living shit
out of me. I think we are looking down the barrel of some kind of
Christo-fascism. And now he thinks he has a mandate. Oh God, please save us
from the christians!
Arlo added:
As Sidney Blumenthal, a leftist response to the likes of the rightists
Limbaugh et al, writes in the Salon, "[t]he evangelical churches became
instruments of political organization. Ideology was enforced as theology,
turning nonconformity into sin, and the faithful, following voter guides
with biblical literalism, were shepherded to the polls as though to the
rapture", as continues "[t]hese emotions were linked to what is
euphemistically called "moral values," which is actually social and sexual
panic over the rights of women and gender roles... Only imposing manly
authority against "girlie men," girls and lurking terrorists can save the
nation.". Finally, "They grafted imperial unilateralism onto provincial
isolationism. Fear of the rest of the world was to be mastered with
contempt for it."
dmb says:
I think Pirsig's descriptions of the battle between social and intellectal
values tells us exactly what's behind all this conflict and division. It
also explains why each side utter fails to comprehend the other. The real
world is very complex and full of shades, but basically we're talking about
two groups of people who basically live in different realities, or as Pirsig
has it, two different levels of reality. The conservatives think liberals
have no morals and liberal think conservatives have no brains. Its a kind of
civil war.
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