From: Ian Glendinning (ian@psybertron.org)
Date: Fri Nov 19 2004 - 13:03:41 GMT
Thanks Joe.
Quote - Ian, I have always admired your calmness.
I may have to frame that for my next work appraisal.
Not sure you'd see me as so calm if you saw the bood-vessels standing out on
my neck at this end :-)
Hopefully I've said the necessary in my most recent respnse to Platt.
Ian G
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Maurer" <jhmau@sbcglobal.net>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: MD Wisconsin School OKs Creationism Teaching
> On 13 November 2004 4:20 PM Ian writes:
>
> I've said enough already, but ...
>
> "Shouldn't we teach what people believe to be true ?"
>
> True, but why would "intellectuals" bother to debate / argue what is
> true, if the truth could be found by popular democracy ?
>
> "They call it God now only because they don't know about Quality ?" I
> don't mind what they "call" it, but I am concerned what they think it
> is. Whether they call it God or Quality, I'd be horrified if they
> thought it was a transcendent purposeful being.
>
> "Allowing room for both God and Darwin ?" But why must it always be a
> binary debate ?
>
> Ian
>
> Hi Ian and all,
>
> Ian I have always admired your calmness. When there have been difficult
> postings on the list, calmness is king. I went back in Lila's Child,
> Chapter 14 [March 1998] to [April 1998] pp 403 to 474. Struan proposed
> that the MOQ's inquiry into morals was based on 'emotivism'.
>
> No one could answer him. If they said yes to 'emotivism' he would
> counter that emotivism is subjective and unverifiable and not
> metaphysics. If they said no, then what was the basis of ethics. The
> metaphysics of ethics in the MOQ could not be established and An Inquiry
> into Morals, was a subjective unprovable assumption of LILA.
>
> Now evolution is a problem. Again no satisfactory answer. IMO mystical
> experience is subjective and verifiable. A new meaning for subjective.
> The statement 'All men are equal' is dogma from mystical experience, and
> is verifiable as all men have mystical experience. 'All men are free' is
> again a dogma of verifiable mystical experience. The Native American
> matrix. Rhetoric 2 logic 0.
>
> Different moral levels inorganic, organic, social, intellectual are
> dogmas of verifiable mystical experience. The origins or evolution of
> the levels are obscure and not important, and can be left to further
> study like the origins of planet Earth.
>
> Joe
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ian Glendinning
> To: moq_discuss@moq.org
> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 3:31 PM
> Subject: Re: MD Wisconsin School OKs Creationism Teaching
>
>
> I've said enough already, but ...
>
> "Shouldn't we teach what people believe to be true ?"
> True, but why would "intellectuals" bother to debate / argue what is
> true, if the truth could be found by popular democracy ?
>
> "They call it God now only because they don't know about Quality ?"
> I don't mind what they "call" it, but I am concerned what they think
> it is. Whether they call it God or Quality, I'd be horrified if they
> thought it was a transcendent purposeful being.
>
> "Allowing room for both God and Darwin ?"
> But why must it always be a binary debate ?
>
> Ian
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Richard Loggins
> To: moq_discuss@moq.org
> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 9:51 PM
> Subject: Re: MD Wisconsin School OKs Creationism Teaching
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I have to wonder if nearly half of adult America sees something - a
> creative something - that is missing from Darwinism and science at large
> that lies behind everything it bludgens into mindless mechanisms. They
> call it God now only because they don't know about Quality, but all
> these people sense something that they are not willing to sluff off.
> Science doesn't seem to be making inroads into their beliefs, because
> it's missing something key: the creative source of all things. All the
> more reason in my view that Creationism or ID should be taught
> side-by-side with evolution. Those are closer to the truth of the MoQ
> and it is what people believe. Shouldn't we teach what people believe to
> be true?
> Rich
>
> From the Nov. 2004 issue of National Geographic -
> "According to a Gallup poll drawn from more than a thousand
> telephone interviews conducted in February 2001, no less than 45 percent
> of responding U.S. adults agreed that "God created human beings pretty
> much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or
> so." Evolution, by their lights, played no role in shaping us.
>
> Only 37 percent of the polled Americans were satisfied with allowing
> room for both God and Darwin-that is, divine initiative to get things
> started, evolution as the creative means. (This view, according to more
> than one papal pronouncement, is compatible with Roman Catholic dogma.)
> Still fewer Americans, only 12 percent, believed that humans evolved
> from other life-forms without any involvement of a god.
>
> The most startling thing about these poll numbers is not that so
> many Americans reject evolution, but that the statistical breakdown
> hasn't changed much in two decades. Gallup interviewers posed exactly
> the same choices in 1982, 1993, 1997, and 1999. The creationist
> conviction-that God alone, and not evolution, produced humans-has never
> drawn less than 44 percent. In other words, nearly half the American
> populace prefers to believe that Charles Darwin was wrong where it
> mattered most."
>
>
>
>
>
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