From: Mark Steven Heyman (markheyman@infoproconsulting.com)
Date: Fri Nov 19 2004 - 14:56:44 GMT
Hi Ian, Platt, Joe, all,
platt:
Washington answers the question, "What is the proper source of
morality for a nation?"
...
Notice that the knee-jerk response so far has been to launch an
ad hominem attack on Washington rather than seriously address the
question.
msh says:
Nations, especially the US, are made up of a wide variety of
religious believers and non-believers. I think no one bothered to
address Platt's question because most of us understand that religious
beliefs are definitely not the proper source of morality for a
nation, unless one wants to live in a theocracy like, say, Iran.
In fact, I don't think nations should be in the business of setting
and enforcing moral or religious standards AT ALL.
If you are asking what sort of behavior should be discouraged within
a state's legal framework, then I think the sensible thing would be
to turn to something like the MOQ for guidance. If the MOQ is not
accepted or understood, then maybe some sort of secular humanist
version of The Golden Rule.
A few comments interspersed below...
On 19 Nov 2004 at 12:56, Ian Glendinning wrote:
(PS 1 - This is very close to my Catch-22 / Political Correctness
point - we need to have the courage of our convictions to drop the
habit of using god (or science) to support our arguments...
msh says:
And I, wouldn't you know it, would say that science, even SOM-
science, is extremely useful in describing and analyzing and
predicting events in our world of experience, so is fairly used in
supporting our arguments. But, I repeat for the thousandth time,
that a MOQ-science, would be better still.
ian:
(PS 2 - Lets' not brand MoQ as "religious moral teaching". Like Zen,
it is a non-mystical "philosophical framework" for a better life.)
msh says:
I think some MOQers will say there is a mystical element to the MOQ,
and point to Phaedrus'/Pirsigs "revelation" that Quality is primary,
and creates both subjects and objects. I prefer to leave this as
boot-strapping assumption. But that's me...
However, I agree with Joe Maurer that every one of us has direct
experience of DQ, and that this is a mystical experience... so I
dunno what I think of mysticism as a foundation of a system of
thought... It's in the "Don't Know" box, for now.
Best to all,
Mark Steven Heyman (msh)
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