From: Ian Glendinning (ian@psybertron.org)
Date: Sun Nov 21 2004 - 12:08:13 GMT
DMB
QUOTE
... the whole idea of the MOQ goes beyond the traditional views. Where faith
and intellect are at war, Pirsig has given us a philosophical mysticism, a
spirituality that is based in experience and is intellectually defensible
...
... The MOQ puts philosophical mysticism over thesim and intellectually
guided societies over traditionally guided ones. Learn it. Deal with it.
Accept it. And then give it up with the horses, will ya? ...
UNQUOTE
Apart perhaps from the word "mysticism" I'd like to think I'm with you on
the whole of this post.
(For mysticism I see experience-based common-sense. You yourself say, based
in experience.)
Question - Which particular strand of this mixed-up thread was it that stung
you ?
Ian
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Buchanan" <DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 12:56 AM
Subject: RE: MD Evil & Buddhism, or Politics & Buddhism
> Scott, mel and any MOQer who feels stung:
>
> But gents, the whole idea of the MOQ goes beyond the traditional views.
> Where faith and intellect are at war, Pirsig has given us a philosophical
> mysticism, a spirituality that is based in experience and is
intellectually
> defensible. On the matter of politics, Pirsig has provided a hierarchy
that
> allows us to see the conflict of levels behind the impasses. The problem
> here is that posters have ignored all that in favor of the entrenched
> positions that we are trying to overcome in the first place.
>
> I mean, if we look at Pirsig's descriptions of the anti-intellectualism in
> the Scopes trial, in the critics of FDR and his New Deal, and in Hitler's
> every move, I think we can see the same thing in our own time. If we look
at
> what Pirsig says about faith, theism, insanity and cultural filters on the
> one hand and what he says about mysticism, the dharmakaya light and
> enlightenment on the other hand, I think we can conclude that.. Well, lets
> just say the MOQ does not support the ditto-heads and if Bush isn't an
> anti-intellectal Victorian reactionary then I will eat my bible.
>
> I mean, rise above it? I wish. I think we have a major problem here in
that
> so many poster hold and assert positions that are quite contrary to the
MOQ.
>
>
> Remember when that neo-nazi racist came along and believed his views are
the
> MOQ. That's about how it makes me feel when I see MOQers defending stupid
> things like ritualistic religion, Rush Limbaugh, the current unjustified
and
> counterproductive war, and all manner of social level irrationalities. I
> thought we were supposed to be philosophers, not rationalizers.
>
> Sorry, but I'm sincerely troubled by it.
>
> I'm not saying you have to be a liberal intellectual to be a MOQ, but
> certain views are ruled out by it. Its not about who gets to be a member
of
> the club, its about taking an honest and responsible approach to the
> structure and meaning of the ideas that make up the MOQ. If it has all the
> precision and power of a motorcycle, then it also has a certain integrity
> and it can only take so much banging and tinkering before the thing breaks
> down. While there is a wide range of accessories we could add or
> improvements we can make, there is an infinately wider range of things we
> can do to ruin it. Trying to put religion, political reaction, or any
other
> anti-intellectualism back into is certainly one of those ruinous moves.
Its
> like trying to "improve" a motorcyle by hitching it up to a horse or
> removing one of its wheels.
>
> The MOQ puts philosophical mysticism over thesim and intellectually guided
> societies over traditionally guided ones. Learn it. Deal with it. Accept
it.
> And then give it up with the horses, will ya?
>
> I'm not necessarily talking to Scott and mel. It goes out to anyone who
was
> stung by it. If this makes you uncomfortable, then I'm talking to you. And
> since Sam is apparently quite comfortable making "improvements" to the
MOQ,
> I'll add that I am most certainly talking to him anyway.
>
> growl, growl, snap.
>
> dmb
>
>
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