From: PhaedrusWolf@aol.com
Date: Sat Nov 27 2004 - 18:14:11 GMT
In a message dated 11/27/04 12:04:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jse885@earthlink.net writes:
> > In ordinary logic, this is simply self-contradictory. In the logic of
> > contradictory identity, it is accepted as "the way it is". Buddhism is
> > known as the Middle Way. Originally, this referred to avoiding the
> > lifestyle extremes of hedonism (pursuit of the transitory things of the
> > world) and ascetism (rejection of those things). With Nagarjuna, it also
> > became applied to avoiding either pole of an apparent paradox, but to
learn
> > to see the two poles as necessarily in mutual contradiction, while being
> > mutually constituting. So, in considering the self, when one thinks of
the
> > self as being a continuous, existing thing, to offset this with the
> > realization that I am not the same person today that I was yesterday,
while
> > when one thinks that I am not the same person today that I was
yesterday,
> > to point out that I am *aware* of the change, so there is a continuity
> > between yesterday's self and today's. Hence, the continuity points to
> > saying "the self exists", while the change points to saying "the self
does
> > not exist", and so one says neither. Furthermore, the awareness of
change
> > presupposes the continuity, while if there were nochange to be aware of,
> > there would be no awareness of continuity. This implies that awareness
*is*
> > this interplay of continuity and change, and that the interplay of
> > continuity and change *is* what makes awareness happen.
>
> Pirsig's four levels constituting the "self" appear to cover these
matters
> fairly well. The inorganic remains mostly the same, parts of the
> biological level change not at all (DNA, fingerprints), the social milieu
> changes to some degree depending on circumstances but family
relationships
> remain constant, and the intellectual is bound to unchanging
mathematical,
> logic and language syntax. So simultaneous stability and change is not
> something unique or strange, leading me to wonder what's to be gained by
> having a "new intellectual attitude" toward the rather obvious.
What Pirsig's levels does not address is *awareness* of change. The
continuity I am speaking of is that sense of self which is aware of change.
So for this to address this would imply that the inorganic is aware of the
biological, the biological of the social, etc.Obviously, "some things
change, and some things stay the same", which can be restated as some
change happens within slower change. But where does awareness of change
come from? That is not at all obvious.
I would think change is obvious. This change happens within us and the world
outside, and we experience this change in our everyday life as in the aging
process or a bird flying from one destination to another. Change is simply a
part of our life experiences, so we naturally recognize it from our
experiences, both within and without.
Internally, we experience it in our thoughts and feelings, and externally
through objects and other people. This is where we experience a feeling of
individuality, a separateness. Change is the continuity, the only constant.
Nothing stays the same that I am aware of, at least not in the long-term.
We may distort these changes in our minds from fear or obsession of the SQ
we have built in our minds, but the change itself is obvious. The DQ/SQ is
simply a map. DQ/SQ, or our "Awareness of change" does not exist in a vacuum. It
comes through our mental and sensor processes, as in the static patterns we
have built and in the DQ we allow to come between the divisions in the SQ.
I would agree that sometimes we are not aware of the change, in that our
experiences are not accepted, or maybe not even recognized as experiences. But,
if we do not recognize or accept these experiences, then how can we be aware
of them?
Are you speaking of a fifth level? -- maybe a mystical level that is not
taken into account the four levels?
Please forgive me if i seem lost to what you are trying to say; i probably
am.
Chin
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