From: ml (mbtlehn@ix.netcom.com)
Date: Sun Dec 12 2004 - 04:24:18 GMT
well posted...thanks for the citation Platt
thanks--mel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Platt Holden" <pholden@sc.rr.com>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>; <owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk>
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 7:02 AM
Subject: Re: MD The Quality of Capitalism?
> Hi MSH, All:
>
> ph::
> > We already know Pirsig's view on the question; a free market system
> > is better than an intellectually directed system because it responds
> > better to DQ. You'll have to go some to top that, but you're welcome
> > to try.
>
> > msh says:
> > No, this is your mis-interpretation of Pirsig's view, which I and
> > others have disputed numerous times. Besides, this view fails to
> > address the question of this thread, stated clearly above. And it
> > fails to address the real-world question of whether or not existing
> > "free-market" economies are really free to respond to DQ.
>
> Here is what Pirsig said about capitalist (free market) vs. socialist
> (intellect-directed) systems:
>
> "That's what neither the socialists nor the capitalists ever got figured
> out. From a static point of view socialism is more moral than capitalism.
> It's a higher form of evolution. It is an intellectually guided society,
> not just a society that is guided by mindless traditions. That's what
> gives socialism its drive. But what the socialists left out and what has
> all but killed their whole undertaking is an absence of a concept of
> indefinite Dynamic Quality. You go to any socialist city and it's always a
> dull place because there's little Dynamic Quality.
> A free market is a Dynamic institution. What people buy and what people
sell,
> in other words what people valve, can never be contained by any
intellectual
> formula. What makes the marketplace work is Dynamic Quality. The market
> is always changing and the direction of that change can never be
predetermined.
> The Metaphysics of Quality says the free market makes everybody richer-by
> preventing static economic patterns from setting in and stagnating
economic
> growth. That is the reason the major capitalist economies of the world
have
> done so much better since World War II than the major socialist economies.
> It is not that Victorian social economic patterns are more moral than
socialist
> intellectual economic patterns. Quite the opposite. They are less moral as
> static patterns go. What makes the free-enterprise system superior is that
the
> socialists, reasoning intelligently and objectively, have inadvertently
closed the
> door to Dynamic Quality in the buying and selling of things. They closed
it
> because the metaphysical structure of their objectivity never told them
> Dynamic Quality exists."(Lila, 17)
>
> This passage, contrary to MSH's claims, 1) addresses the "Quality of
> Capitalism," 2) addresses the real-world question of whether existing
> free-market systems respond to DQ and 3) proves it wasn't ever
> "misinterpreted" by me.
>
> > I'm looking for evidence, analysis, and argument here. You can rely
> > on the MOQ for argument, if you like, but evidence means stepping
> > outside the MOQ and into the real world of imperfect economic
> > systems.
>
> I find no good reason to "step outside the MOQ" since Pirsig is obviously
> talking about the "real world," not some imaginary Never-Never Land.
> Pirsig never claims free market capitalism is perfect, simply that it's
> better than intellectually directed socialism. Of course, if you'd rather
> live in Sweden, go for it.
>
> Best,
> Platt
>
>
>
>
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