Re: MD Is Morality Relative?

From: Phaedrus Wolff (PhaedrusWolff@carolina.rr.com)
Date: Thu Dec 16 2004 - 04:41:35 GMT

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    msh) --What do y'all think he means? Is there something OUT THERE, or not?

    Hi msh,

    It's value.

    Value is before subject and object, but value is not an absolute in that it
    is not anything by itself. S/O is created from value, and value is created
    from S/O, and value is in S/O, and value is Quality(?)

    Subject does not (but can) create the object, and objects don't (but can)
    create the subjects, either can be replaced by value, and all that can be
    perceived comes from value, as value can be perceived in any way(?)

    S/O are perceived to be real(?)

    My observation of what he is saying is that the particles and waves desire
    to be held together, and the value (Quality) which is the gravity missing in
    physics which confuses physics, and is the link that removes this confusion.

    Just guessing, but I like where you are heading.

    Chin

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Mark Steven Heyman" <markheyman@infoproconsulting.com>
    To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 10:21 PM
    Subject: MD Is Morality Relative?

    > Hi Arlo, Chin, all..
    >
    > >arlo said:
    >
    > All this talk of absolutes also reminds me of the "law of gravity"
    > part of the chatauqua. "So there was this 'absolute', sitting there,
    > having no mass of its own, no energy of its own, not in anyone's mind
    > because there wasn't anyone, not in space because there was no space
    > either, no anywhere - this 'absolute' still existed?"
    >
    > Pirsig continues:
    > "Laws of nature are human inventions, like ghosts. Laws of logic, of
    > mathematics are also human inventions, like ghosts. The whole blessed
    > thing is a human invention, including the idea that it 'isn't' a
    > human invention. The world has no existence whatsoever outside the
    > human imagination."
    >
    > msh asks:
    > Yes, this comment has always troubled me. "The world has no
    > existence whatsoever outside the human imagination." Is Pirsig an
    > Idealist or an Empiricist or what? I can see how the laws of nature
    > and logic might be said to exist in our imaginations, but everything?
    > Is this just some poetic enthusiasm from way back, near the beginning
    > of ZMM, to support the ol' ghosts around the campfire setting?
    >
    > What do y'all think he means? Is there something OUT THERE, or not?
    >
    > Best,
    > Mark Steven Heyman (msh)
    > --
    > InfoPro Consulting - The Professional Information Processors
    > Custom Software Solutions for Windows, PDAs, and the Web Since 1983
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    >
    > "The shadows that a swinging lamp will throw,
    > We come from nowhere and to nothing go."
    >
    >
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