Re: MD Socratic Mysticism and Pirsig

From: Sam Norton (elizaphanian@kohath.wanadoo.co.uk)
Date: Thu Dec 16 2004 - 21:56:23 GMT

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    Hi Marsha,

    I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you. As I understand it, in Eastern martial arts there is the
    concept of 'beginner's mind'. What this means is that someone who is beginning to study the art will
    react in an uneducated way to a particular experience. When the instructor, for example, throws a
    surprise punch, the student will react instinctively (normally by trying to snap their head out of
    the way). The student does not try and interpret what is happening according to any understanding of
    how to fight, he simply reacts to the experience. This is why, symbolically, a new student wears a
    white belt - their mind is a clean slate. Now, as the student develops and begins to train his
    reactions alter. Through regular and disciplined training the student learns that, for example, a
    right handed punch thrown by an opponent may be met by a left handed block. In training the student
    will repeat set actions hundreds of times: a thrown punch, a particular block. Throughout the
    training there is continual mental effort which is aimed at overcoming the instinctive reaction and
    replacing it with the educated response. Thus, with effort, the student can gain proficiency in the
    art and, in the end, re-educate his instinctive reactions. Contrary to popular understanding the
    highest grade in a martial art is not the black belt but a return to the white belt. What this
    represents is a return to 'beginner's mind' on the part of the artist: the reactions are once more
    completely instinctive, and not channelled or interpreted by the conscious mind. The artist will
    simply respond directly to the experience, instinctively, although, of course, his reactions will be
    very different to those of the beginner. (This state of 'beginner's mind' is closely related to the
    Zen Buddhist state of 'no mind', so far as I understand it.)

    Sam

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "MarshaV" <marshalz@i-2000.com>
    To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 7:40 PM
    Subject: Re: MD Socratic Mysticism and Pirsig

    > Dear Sam and Chin,
    >
    > I don't agree with the master/novice analogy. It's more being in total
    > awareness. That can happen to a novice with very little training, if he's
    > in total concentration, or mindfulness. You don't necessarily need many
    > years, or a teacher. But they might help a lot if one tends to overthink
    > everything. Do you think their are levels of mystical experience?
    >
    > MarshaV

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